Punctuation doesn't punctuate it?

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Taka

#187241 Sun, 22 Jan 06 07:13 PM

If you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour--or less--and don't fight it, the feelings of boredom will be replaced with feeling of peace. And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax.

Suppose you make the statement above an indirect speech, with, say, 'he says that'. I think it's going to be:

He says that if you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour--or less--and don't fight it, the feelings of boredom will be replaced with feeling of peace. And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax.

Now, as you see there, there is a period after 'peace'. And my question is, from a grammatical point of view, even if there is a period there, does it NOT put 'And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax' out of the scope of the that-clause?

Taka

Joined on Tue, Sep 7 2004

Japan

Senior Member (2,266)

Clauses, Punctuation, Direct speech, Indirect speech

davkett

#187266 Sun, 22 Jan 06 07:38 PM

(First of all, I don't see a comma after 'peace' in your indirect-speech version; I see a period.)

So, Taka, did you mean to show the revised sentence this way?--

He says that if you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour--or less--and don't fight it, the feelings of boredom will be replaced with feeling of peace, and after a little practice, you'll learn to relax.

Have I changed the rules of play by this solution?--

He says that if you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour-- or less --and don't fight it, the feeling of boredom will be replaced with a feeling of peace, and that if you practice doing so, you'll learn to relax.

davkett

Joined on Tue, Jun 7 2005

Pennsylvania, USA

Senior Member (2,788)

"The rose stays fresh in its name..." -Bernard of Morlay

Commas, Punctuation

Taka

#187272 Sun, 22 Jan 06 07:51 PM

I'm very sorry, davkett. I meant to say 'a period' (now I edited it).

Sorry for the confusion.

Taka

Punctuation

davkett

#187280 Sun, 22 Jan 06 08:07 PM

Still, your question is 'even if there is a period there'.

Don't you, in fact, want to ask, "because there is a period after 'peace', does it not put 'And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax' out of the scope of the that-clause"?

If that is your question, I believe I would answer 'yes'.

davkett

Clauses, Punctuation

Taka

#187281 Sun, 22 Jan 06 08:23 PM

Davkett wrote:
If that is your question, I believe I would answer 'yes'.

For your information, here is the original:

I was first exposed to the idea that occasional boredom can actually be good for me while studying with a therapist in La Conner, Washington, a tiny little town with very little "to do." After finishing our first day together, I asked my instructor, "What is there to do around here at night?" He responded by saying, "What I'd like you to do is allow yourself to be bored. Do nothing. This is part of your training." At first I thought he was kidding! "Why on earth would I choose to be bored?" I asked. He went on to explain that if you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour--or less--and don't fight it, the feelings of boredom will be replaced with feelings of peace. And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax.

http://edr.8m.com/Library.htm

It does seem that the sentence 'And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax' IS INCLUDED in the that-clause even though there is a period after 'peace', like:

He went on to explain [that if you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour--or less--and don't fight it, the feelings of boredom will be replaced with feelings of peace. And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax.]

Taka

Clauses, Punctuation

davkett

#187298 Sun, 22 Jan 06 10:32 PM

studying.jpg

Sorry, I seem to have twice misread your question. The context here clears up the matter.

(However, the opening clause is a bit off in word order, don't you think?-- 'I was first exposed to the idea that occasional boredom can actually be good for me while studying with a therapist in La Conner, Washington...' Sounds like occasional boredom can be good for you while studying with a therapist.

davkett

Clauses, Word order, Punctuation

Taka

#187436 Mon, 23 Jan 06 07:01 AM

Davkett wrote:
However, the opening clause is a bit off in word order, don't you think?

To me, not as confusing---and shocking--- as the one that I'm asking a question about. I mean, a period is, you know a 'period', a full stop. I thought it should indicate the end of the sentence.

Clive, are you there? You are actually teaching English, right?

If you make 'sentence A. sentenceB' an indirect speech, is it grammatically possible for a that-clause to include both sentence A and B with a period between them, like 'He says that sentence A. sentenceB'?

Taka

Clauses, Word order, Punctuation, Direct speech, Indirect speech, Teaching English

davkett

#187525 Mon, 23 Jan 06 01:39 PM

(Just so I can stay in the dialogue, though I understand why you would want an English teacher's expertise on this...so would I)--

I finally grasp, (I hope), the essence of your question, which, as always, is an interesting one. I confess to not knowing of a rule. However, I think it is at least semantically clear from the wording here, that the sentence after the period is included in the indirect speech. Perhaps two more sentences, a whole page of sentences, a whole lot of pages of them, could conceivably fall under an initial 'that'.

Is this example unique in your readings?

davkett

Punctuation, Direct speech, Indirect speech

Clive

#187700 Mon, 23 Jan 06 10:55 PM

Hi guys,

He went on to explain that if you allow yourself to be bored, even for an hour--or less--and don't fight it, the feelings of boredom will be replaced with feelings of peace. And after a little practice, you'll learn to relax.

Well, I agree with both of you, that grammatically the last sentence is 'out of the scope'.

I also agree with Davkett that, nevertheless, the meaning is clear. As well as the meaning, the use of 'and' and the continued use of 'you' signals that the final sentence is a continuation of the thought.

It's written in a colloquial kind of style, eg the period instead of a comma, starting a sentence with 'and', and the informal use of 'you' rather than the third person.

Best wishes, Clive