The question mark/comma/quotation mark debacle

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RegCor

#494957 Mon, 31 Mar 08 04:08 PM

My colleague and I have been wondering about this for a while...If you're referring to a title with a question mark or exclamation mark, which typically requires quotation marks around it, should you use a comma along with exclamation mark and quotation mark when continuing the sentence?

For example, should it be:

Newtown Arts Company will present Rogers and Hammerstein's classic musical “Oklahoma!,” the second show in its 2008 season.

OR:

Newtown Arts Company will present Rogers and Hammerstein's classic musical “Oklahoma!” the second show in its 2008 season.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

RegCor

Joined on Mon, Mar 31 2008

New Member (10)

Commas, Quotation marks, Question marks, Exclamation marks, comma

RayH

#494963 Mon, 31 Mar 08 04:30 PM

Please note that American English likes to place the final punctuation mark inside a title or quotation, even though it doesn't form part of it.
The British regard this practice as illogical.
AmE: He's always wanted to read "Moby Dick," "Oliver Twist" and "The Great Gatsby."

BrE: He's always wanted to read "Moby Dick", "Oliver Twist" and "The Great Gatsby".

Here is the link to the site this came from if you want to check it yourself. The relevant section is near the bottom of the screen under the heading "quotation marks".

HTH

http://www.davidappleyard.com/english/punctuation.htm

RayH

Joined on Sat, Mar 22 2008

CA, USA

Regular Member (689)

Native speaker of U. S. English. Not a grammar expert.

Regards, American English, Commas, Punctuation, Quotation marks, Question marks

RegCor

#494967 Mon, 31 Mar 08 04:40 PM

Hi Ray,

Thanks for your help, however, I was wondering if there should be a comma when you have the title of a play (or book, or movie, etc.) with punctuation (like a question mark of exclamation mark) as part of the actual title. If I wanted to say - "Oklahoma!" the classic musical by Rodgers and Hammerstein, will be performed on stage next week - would there be a comma between the exclamation point and quotation mark as normally there would be one.

I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this well! It's rather complicated to verbalize. Thanks!

RegCor

Commas, Punctuation, Quotation marks, Question marks, Exclamation marks

CalifJim

#494973 Mon, 31 Mar 08 04:50 PM

If you're writing informally for yourself and friends, use your own judgment.

If you're writing for a specific publication, use the style manual they recommend.

Often the answer is different depending on where your article is published.

My personal preference is ... musical "Oklahoma!", the second show ...

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,957)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Articles, Commas, Quotation marks, Question marks

RayH

#494976 Mon, 31 Mar 08 04:55 PM

I guess I'm inclined to treat the punctuation as just another character. I'm even more inclined to adopt the BrE method, at which point the whole question becomes moot.
Thus, using the BrE method,
"Oklahoma!", the classic musical by Rodgers and Hammerstein, will...

No muss, no fuss.

RayH

Commas, Punctuation, Quotation marks, Question marks

RegCor

#494980 Mon, 31 Mar 08 05:00 PM

So I have two votes for "Oklahoma!", - thanks, guys! It's much appreciated!

RegCor

Commas, Quotation marks, Question marks

Grammar Geek

#495016 Mon, 31 Mar 08 06:39 PM

I just looked this up in the AP Stylebook. Their style is to omit the comma if the quoated material ends with a ! or ?

I'm not sure that this entirely logical, and U.S. style, despite being illogical, is so firmly fixed with the comma inside the quote that I can't advocate for putting it after.

Can you just rewrite to avoid the need for it? ... "Oklahoma!" as the second...

You can always use dashes if you ened to set off an entire section with commas.

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (15,565)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

Commas, Quotation marks, Question marks

RegCor

#495046 Mon, 31 Mar 08 08:45 PM

The whole situation is very confusing, and yes, in the office, we try to rewrite it to avoid the question mark/comma/quotation composition. But there has to be an answer. Being raised with the "comma always goes on the inside on a quotation mark," putting one outside looks jarring.

However, yhank you, everyone, for your help!

RegCor