Real Condition in the past

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Lcchang

#535236 Tue, 01 Jul 08 05:10 PM

"Real condition in the past" is rarely discussed in grammar books. I just happened to find one book that mentioned a bit of it. Here is the sentence given in the book.

If they were waiting for a counteroffer, they were wise.

Looking at the sentence, I am not sure what exactly the structure of such conditional sentence should be like. Can someone help? Thanks.

Lcchang

Joined on Mon, Feb 27 2006

Northern Taiwan

Contributing Member (1,005)

Life will never end.

Grammar, Conditionals

Mr Wordy

#535451 Tue, 01 Jul 08 11:10 PM

Well, the structure of such a sentence should be rather like the structure of the example sentence you quote, I guess. What else did you want to know?

A couple more examples:

If they got away with it, they were lucky.

If he didn't see that car coming, he can't have been paying attention.

Mr Wordy

Joined on Tue, May 27 2008

Regular Member (960)

Native British English speaker

New2grammar

#535460 Tue, 01 Jul 08 11:20 PM

Sorry to interrupt.

Mr Wordy
If he didn't see that car coming, he can't have been paying attention

Mr. Wordy, your example captured my attention.

Can I say "He couldn't have been paying attention" instead?

Mr Wordy
A couple more examples:

I was told a couple usually takes the preposition of though it is also correct without. If I wan tto include a 'of', where should I put it, before or after more?

Thanks in advance.

New2grammar

Joined on Tue, Nov 21 2006

Veteran Member (7,670)

Who wants to go sailing around the world with me?

Prepositions

CalifJim

#535461 Tue, 01 Jul 08 11:20 PM

I'm not sure that these are actually "real conditions in the past", even though that terminology is used.

Usually, these have the past in both clauses -- no would clause. Is that what you wanted to know?

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,979)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Clauses

Mr Wordy

#535482 Tue, 01 Jul 08 11:51 PM

New2grammar
Can I say "He couldn't have been paying attention" instead?

To me, yes, with not a great deal of difference in meaning. "Couldn't" just makes it seem a bit more in doubt that he wasn't paying attention.

New2grammar
I was told a couple usually takes the preposition of though it is also correct without. If I wan tto include a 'of', where should I put it, before or after more?

I would never use "of" with "more" here.

A couple of examples -- yes

A couple examples -- for me, no (sounds like an Americanism -- not sure if it is)

A couple more of examples -- definitely not

A couple of more examples -- definitely not

Mr Wordy

Grammar, Prepositions

Mr Wordy

#535487 Tue, 01 Jul 08 11:55 PM

Mr Wordy
A couple of more examples -- definitely not

However, there are a surprising number of Google book hits for this. Weird -- to me it sounds completely wrong. I'm wondering if it might be a US usage.

Anyone else?

Mr Wordy

Numbers

New2grammar

#535491 Tue, 01 Jul 08 11:57 PM

Maybe GG could comment on this. If I remember correctly, I learned that a couple is followed by of in formal writing. Maybe couple more is an exception.

New2grammar

CalifJim

#535493 Wed, 02 Jul 08 12:02 AM

Mr Wordy
to me it sounds completely wrong. I'm wondering if it might be a US usage.

I'm from the U.S. and it sounds wrong to me, too.

I'd say that a couple more is an informal way of saying a few more, and is subject to the same rules of grammar, namely:

Just as we can't say a few of more things or a few more of things, we can't say a couple of more things or a couple more of things. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to pretend that those Google results don't exist. They're too upsetting! Stick out tongue

CalifJim

Grammar

Mr Wordy

#535494 Wed, 02 Jul 08 12:03 AM

New2grammar
If I remember correctly, I learned that a couple is followed by of in formal writing. Maybe couple more is an exception

Yep, it's possible that you're thinking of phrases without "more", such as "I got off work a couple hours early" (rather than "I got off work a couple of hours early"). To me the former sounds distinctly American. It might be that in US usage this dropping of "of" is accepted in informal speech but not in formal writing. But let's see what a native US speaker has to say!

Mr Wordy

Grammar

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