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Taka

#456274 Sun, 23 Dec 07 01:09 PM

What was more revolutionary in Einstein's overthrow of Newton's laws was the change in prespective, the change in ideas about space and time that Einstein identified.

What does 'that' in red refer to? 'Space and time'?

Taka

Joined on Tue, Sep 7 2004

Japan

Senior Member (2,351)

Philip

#456301 Sun, 23 Dec 07 01:54 PM

Taka wrote:
What was more revolutionary in Einstein's overthrow of Newton's laws was the change in p[er]spective, the change in ideas about space and time that Einstein identified.

What does 'that' in red refer to? 'Space and time'?

This is a perfect example of "too much sentence", making exactly what the relative pronoun refers to vague. Based on what is given, my guess is that the antecedent is 'change in ideas'. He didn't identify either space or time, but rather the change in ideas.

Philip

Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005

USA Pacific Northwest (Seattle)

Veteran Member (6,320)

At reise er at leve! - H. C. Andersen

Nouns, Pronouns, Relative Pronouns

CalifJim

#456480 Mon, 24 Dec 07 12:21 AM

There's not enough semantic coherence there to make a determination about the reference.

Einstein didn't identify the change.
He didn't identify any ideas.
He didn't identify space -- nor time.

If you change the verb identified to something like brought about, it makes more sense. Einstein brought about changes in ideas about space and time. In this case that would refer to change.

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,714)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Verbs

Taka

#456525 Mon, 24 Dec 07 03:32 AM

That's right, Jim! I counldn't really find what Einstein 'idintified', so I was confused.

Whichever the verb, it's not 'time and space'. That's for sure.

Thank you both!

Taka

Verbs

Pter

#456526 Mon, 24 Dec 07 03:42 AM

What if identified is changed to re-defined? Would it make that refer to space and time?

Einstein re-defined gravity as the curvature of space and space-time as a continuum.

Pter

Joined on Wed, Nov 28 2007

Hong Kong

Full Member (431)

CalifJim

#456561 Mon, 24 Dec 07 05:40 AM

That's a good try, but unfortunately, it won't work.

the change in ideas about space and time that Einstein redefined.

Now we're working with one of these, depending how we interpret the referent of that.

the change that he redefined
the ideas that he redefined
the space and time that he redefined

Now recall that that makes the description restrictive, so it means that particular space and time that Einstein redefined -- excluding all other space and time (redefined by someone else, perhaps, or not redefined at all!)

So the most likely referent of that would be ideas, if ideas can be redefined, and that's a little doubtful. Nevertheless, it might be understood that way.

But if you want space and time to be the referent, you'll need a non-restrictive relative pronoun (and a comma), like this:

the change in ideas about space and time, which Einstein redefined.

CJ

CalifJim

Nouns, Pronouns, Commas, Relative Pronouns