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Latest post Thu, May 21 2009 10:53 PM by MrPedantic. 13 replies.
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Anonymous  +  735616 Mon, 18 May 09 09:09 AM
Omission of "that" is common in spoken English in such constructions as these:

 

the bloke came to stay with us was from Africa

we had this African bloke came to stay

there a guy in our class has a an ¡Phone

 

Does such omission commonly occur in written English?

Anonymous, 187 days ago
Typo edit:

 

<there a guy in our class has a an ¡Phone>

 

there a guy in our class has an ¡Phone

 

Aplogies.

Alienvoord  +  738241 Tue, 19 May 09 10:54 PM
You can omit "who/which/that" when it stands for the object, for instance


1 The bloke (that) I spoke to was from Africa.

2 The guy (that) I saw in our class has an iPhone.


But if "who/which/that" stands for the subject, you cannot omit it in standard English.


3 The bloke who came to stay with us was from Africa.

4 There is a guy in our class who has an iPhone.


However, in some dialects it can be omitted when it is used as the subject. Your examples are from a dialect where this is possible.

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Anonymous, 186 days ago
<Your examples are from a dialect where this is possible.>

 

I think they are standard spoken English.

Kooyeen  +  738371 Wed, 20 May 09 12:45 AM
I have never heard anything like that in American English (yet). As Alienvoord says, that's problably a feature of some dialects... But I don't know which dialects... Where could I hear something like that, Alienvoord?
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Alienvoord  +  738728 Wed, 20 May 09 04:58 AM
I thought it was found in the UK, but don't quote me. MWDEU says it used to be common (for instance Shakespeare) but is now only found when introduced by "it is" or "there are". But the most recent example is from 100 years ago:


but the business of beatuy - there is no person at all knows what that is - James Stephens, 1912

Cool Breeze  +  739059 Wed, 20 May 09 08:51 AM
Alienvoord
“But if "who/which/that" stands for the subject, you cannot omit it in standard English.”

I agree to a large extent. However, some writers do omit the relative even then. I remember a couple of sentences:

There's somebody at the door [who/that] wants to see you.

I don't remember who said/wrote that.


"All stories [that are] long enough end in death."

Ernest Hemingway


The last sentence may not qualify as a particularly good example as both the relative and the verb (are) have been omitted. (I've been thinking of using it as my signature one day, by the way.)


CB

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"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
Anonymous, 185 days ago
Then how about these?

 

All taking drugs will be prevented from participating.

All found guilty of drug abuse will be charged.

All entering must produce the correct papers.

All meeting Jim tomorrow can be sure of a good laugh.

 

Alienvoord  +  739968 Wed, 20 May 09 07:33 PM
Cool Breeze
"All stories [that are] long enough end in death."

Ernest Hemingway”


Since the verb is omitted too, that's a different construction.


Then how about these?



All taking drugs will be prevented from participating.

All found guilty of drug abuse will be charged.

All entering must produce the correct papers.

All meeting Jim tomorrow can be sure of a good laugh.”


These are different constructions too. These sentences only have 1 clause each.


I found an example in a Michael Moorcock novel from 1976, in dialogue:


"Or maybe it was the bus company found out he hadn't paid his fare from Shepherd's Bush."

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