Relative pronoun definition: He "what" runs

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Arnkell  #87867  Thu, 07 Apr 05 05:42 PM
What are the rules for using "what" in the way I did in this thread title?

I first heard it in the TV cartoon series "The Tick", which has a bad guy called "The Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight".

I've been told that the standard pronouns are who, whom, which and that:

"Who" is used for people
"Whom" is used as an object about people or after prepositions
"Whose" is a genitive and can refer to both people and things
"Which" refers to things, animals or a whole sentence
"That" can be a substitute for both "Who" and "Which" in relative clauses when necessary

But what about "What";

The man what is called John
The Bomber what bombs at midnight

Does anyone know the rules for using "What" in this way?
  
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khoff  #87881  Thu, 07 Apr 05 06:02 PM
I would say the rule is to use "what" instead of "who" or "that" if you want to sound illiterate or uneducated!
  
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Arnkell  #87896  Thu, 07 Apr 05 06:18 PM
What makes you associate this "What"-use with being illiterate and uneducated? I thought it was an older way of speaking, like saying "thee"?!
  
just the truth  #87959  Thu, 07 Apr 05 11:19 PM
What makes you associate this "What"-use with being illiterate and uneducated? I thought it was an older way of speaking, like saying "thee"?!

JTT: If I'm not mistaken, it is an older form of English. It's funny and more than a bit ironic that the language that is often made most fun of [hill country] more closely replicates older forms of English.
  
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just the truth  #87960  Thu, 07 Apr 05 11:20 PM
I forgot to say that it isn't standard English.
  
Arnkell  #87971  Thu, 07 Apr 05 11:42 PM
Right, I had deduced that as well, I like reading about old nuggets like "pray tell" and "fair teeming" and such, which is why this "what" thing caught my eye.
My generation of swedish youths is so used to modern english-american lingo that quaint, old fashioned expressions and colloquial figures of speech shine like pearls when we happen upon them.

It's not like I would use this expression any chance I get, that would sound pretentious as all hell, but I thought it would be interesting to see if there was any backstory to be found about the manner of this pronoun, like during which period it was most used and by which part of the english-speaking population.

Do you know how hard it is to try and hunt down linguistic web articles about aged relative pronouns on Google? It's a lot of work, I tell you.
  
khoff  #87978  Fri, 08 Apr 05 12:10 AM
Sorry - I had a feeling when I made the "illiterate and uneducated" comment I was going to regret it! I didn't even think of the posiblity of its being archaic. Pray forgive, forsooth!
  
MrPedantic  #87980  Fri, 08 Apr 05 12:36 AM
Only a guess: but if we take 'what' to mean 'that which', can we call the 'older/hill people' use a kind of restatement? e.g.

1. The play what I wrote =>
2. The play that which I wrote.

'What' seems an unjustly maligned little word. In BrE, for instance, 'which' seems to be regarded as somehow more upmarket; so you might hear e.g.

3. 'I don't know which play you mean',

instead of

4. 'I don't know what play you mean'.

Or, monstrously, e.g.

5. 'I don't know to which play you're referring',

instead of

6. 'I don't know what play you're referring to'.

MrP
  
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CalifJim  #88038  Fri, 08 Apr 05 04:16 AM
Mr. P.,
I thought that "what" in that usage was very "East End London". Can you confirm?

Example: You have an aura what is purple with white stripes.

CJ
  
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"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
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