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relative pronouns

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Anonymous  #227757  Mon, 22 May 06 10:18 AM
all 'that' you want you can have.
why is that sentence not correct when 'that' is substituted for 'which'
as far as i know, when we refer to things they are interchangeable.
please!

incho

  
Philip  #227807  Mon, 22 May 06 03:42 PM

 Anonymous wrote:
all 'that' you want you can have.
why is that sentence not correct when 'that' is substituted for 'which'
as far as i know, when we refer to things they are interchangeable.
please!

incho

Someone may come up with a source that differs from my point of view, but to me they are interchangeable.  I would use "that" in this case, but I cannot give you a good reason for that preference. 

I think that I might use "which" to be more emphatic.  "The book that I read last week was really interesting" ----- "The book which I told you to read was very interesting" (but you didn't read it - and it might even be set off by commas in written form to indicate the possible admonition.

Just to add to the confusion, you can write/say the sentence without either.

  
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Kane1989  #227813  Mon, 22 May 06 04:10 PM
i would use there what instead of which

all what you want you can have
  
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Anonymous  #227836  Mon, 22 May 06 05:41 PM
'all what,' is false
thx anyway
inchoate

  
Ant_222  #227874  Mon, 22 May 06 08:59 PM
As I am concerned, «that» is used with a descriptive clause, while «which» — with an indicative one.

«I have a book _that_ was published 1941»
Here a property of the book is emphasized.

«Is «The Elements of Thought» that book about _which_ you told me?»
Here the book itself is in question.
  
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Grammar Geek  #227963  Tue, 23 May 06 05:02 AM

This forum has covered the topic of THAT and WHICH in depth.

That is restrictive and and tells the reader which one you mean. The book that you recommended, All the items that are on the table, the table that has the scratch on the leg, the house that has the pretty fountain.

Which provides additional information and the clause is set off by commas. I've added to the additional information here. The book [which you told me to read, by the way] was very good. All the items [which are still on the table, because the wind didn't blow them off] are for sale. The table [which had a scratch on the leg, but I didn't mind] was only $50.

They are not interchangeable. It may be moving in that direction and in another 20 years the distinction will be gone, but it's still there now.  

  
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Barbara, who answers in American English.
CalifJim  #227982  Tue, 23 May 06 06:29 AM
That is restrictive and and tells the reader which one you mean. ...
Which provides additional information and the clause is set off by commas.

So it is your contention that which is always non-restrictive and always requires the commas associated with non-restrictive clauses?

CJ
  
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CalifJim  #227990  Tue, 23 May 06 07:12 AM
all 'that' you want you can have.
why is that sentence not correct when 'that' is substituted for 'which'

All which you want you can have is grammatically correct.  Who says it is not?

As a matter of actual practice, which is no more than linguistic habit, we almost always prefer to say all that you want (or all you want) instead of all which you want.  This has nothing to do with the grammar of that and which and everything to do with speaker preferences.  I suspect the same preference exists for that after all indefinite pronouns -- not just all.

CJ

See also the following posts.  The last one cited contains a reference to the "dictatorial Yanqui machine" which is particularly amusing.

Post:39502
Post:56923
Post:147980
Post:96008
Post:58361
Post:20553
  
Anonymous  #228003  Tue, 23 May 06 09:06 AM
Richard Side and Guy Wellman in Grammar and Vocabulary for CAE and CPE.
There is a task which requires you to use one of the relative pronouns:
who, whom, whose, that, which.
They marked 'that' as the only alternative to fill the gap in the sentence in question.

Inchoate

  
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