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Pter  +  467985 Wed, 23 Jan 08 03:41 PM
Thank you very much CJ, Zerox, and Carson.  You all have given me very valuable advices.  After reading through all you said carefully, and then watching a couple of English TV programmes, I believe I can now tell the difference!  The ending /z/ in most cases are much shorter, voiced but less audible than the hissing sound of the ending /s/.  Now, I found out what's the problem.  Those sound files I was listening to are from a pronouncing dictionary.  And perhaps in trying to make them as clearly audible as possible, both the ending /s/ and ending /z/ are spoken very "clearly" and become unnatural.

For people like me that learn English as a second language, we are often influenced heavily by our mother tongue.  This is like looking at something through a piece of tainted glass.  In those aspects where our mother tongue has big differences with English, unless we are told the rules explicitly, we often never realize how people really say them in English just by listening.  My mother tongue does not have any voiced consonants and consonant clusters, therefore, it is quite a challenge for me to learn how to pronounce a cluster of voiced consonants, such as /-ndz/, /-gz/, /zd/.

Again, thank you very much to you all.  You really helped me a lot!

=======================
EDIT:

Let me summarize what I have learnt here plus a little that I have discovered myself.

1. Final voiced consonant (b, d, g, l, m, n, ng, r, v, voiced th) + s ---> /z/
2. Final voiceless consonant (f, k, p, t, voiceless th) + s ---> /s/
3. Final vowel + s ---> no rules, except when any of the following rules apply
4. Some words that can be used both as verb and noun/adjective ---> verb: /z/, noun or adjective: /s/
5. Words ending in -as, -is, -os, -us:
    when the s is part of the word in its basic form (not plural or third party singular verb) ---> /s/
    when the s is added to make it a plural or third party singluar verb ---> /z/
6. Words ending in -ces, -des, -oes, -shes, -ses, -zes ---> /z/
7. Words ending in -sis, -nce, -nse, -ss (including -less, ness), -sce ---> /s/
8. /z/ is more common than /s/ overall
Joined on Wed, Nov 28 2007
Regular Member 558
Zerox  +  468041 Wed, 23 Jan 08 05:38 PM
You pointed out an important issue. Usually when a native is speaking to a foreigner, they slow down their speech and pronounce words more carefully than they would in their normal speech. Although, this is extremely kind of them, they actually do us, foreigners, a disservice by speaking with strong forms. And if foreigners hear too much of this 'foreign English', they have hard times listening normal conversations in normal speed.
Joined on Wed, May 10 2006
Full Member 295
-It is rational that the irrational contradicts with the rational-
Carson21  +  468652 Fri, 25 Jan 08 06:21 AM
Out of curiosity, Pter, what is your first language? (I've never heard of a language with no voiced consonants before o_O; ) .
Joined on Wed, Jan 23 2008
U.S.A.
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English doesn't "borrow" from other languages; it follows them dark alleys, beats them unconscious, then rummages through their pockets looking for loose grammar.
Pter  +  468684 Fri, 25 Jan 08 08:32 AM
Chinese, and more specifically Cantonese.

For example, mother in Cantonese is /ma:/ (not an exact transcription), but the m is voiceless.

Mandarin is similar in this respect.
Anonymous, 1 yr 247 days ago
Pter
“Chinese, and more specifically Cantonese.

For example, mother in Cantonese is /ma:/ (not an exact transcription), but the m is voiceless.

Mandarin is similar in this respect.

Hi there. I was wondering what you meant by the m being voiceless. Wouldn't a voiceless m sound exactly like just exhaling through your nose? I think the reason an /m/ is an /m/ is because of the voice with the breath. Then again, I don't speak Cantonese. =)

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