same way question tag

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Teo  #195869  Sun, 12 Feb 06 12:33 PM

Negative 'same-way' tags are occasionlly heard; they usually sound aggressive.

I see. You don't like my cooking, don't you?

Practical English Usage, by Michael Swan, Oxford University Press 2005

  
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Mister Micawber  #195873  Sun, 12 Feb 06 12:49 PM

It looks like the folks at English Club just plagiarized Swan and changed a couple of words.  The score is still 3-0 against the form here at English Forums, Teo.  Feel free to try other sites.

  
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Teo  #195879  Sun, 12 Feb 06 01:20 PM

So he doesn't like his job, doesn't he?

Page 813, A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, Longman Group Limited 1985

Written by Randolf Quirk, Sidney Greenbaum, Geoffrey Leech, Jan Svartvik

Index by David Crystal

  
Mister Micawber  #195885  Sun, 12 Feb 06 01:32 PM

Did you read the page you referenced, Teo?  It says:

"Logically we should expect an equivalent sixth type in which both question and tag are negative.... This type, however, has not been clearly attested in actual use."


  
Teo  #195897  Sun, 12 Feb 06 02:12 PM

He isn't ill, isn't he?

Page 892, The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, Cambridge University Press 2002, Rodney Huddleston and Geoffrey K. Pullum in collaboration with Bauer, Birner, Collins, Denison, Lee, Mittwoch, Nunberg, Palmer, Payne, Peterson, Stirling, Ward.

  
nona the brit  #195939  Sun, 12 Feb 06 04:21 PM

Oh for goodness sake Teo, if you really insist on using two negatives like this, please go ahead, it's entirely up to you. We are not here to set the rules for you.

Pulling odd sentences out of context though doesn't really prove your point as one of your previous examples was followed by the reference book's statement that this is not actually used. All of us native speakers are saying, no, they are not used. I can - hand on heart - state that I have never heard them being used. If I did hear it, I would assume it was a non-native speaker error. But if you love them so much that you still wish to use them, go ahead. It's up to you. You will sound pretty stupid but it's your choice entirely.

  
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Teo  #196114  Sun, 12 Feb 06 10:16 PM
I am not surprised that many native speakers object to negative-negative question tags for I know they are considered substandard by American speakers and only some British grammarians such as Michael Swan and Rodney Huddleston have found a few instances of them being used. Not all native speakers agree about how we should say some things. Even commonly used idioms and expressions vary tremendously from one area to another. Please do not hastily conclude that negative-negative question tags are stupid. I know their limited acceptability and I myself don't use them. My original question was about the intonation of 'same-way' question tags. I thought they should be used with a falling intonation, because they are not asking for information - and not even asking for confirmation of information. They are merely making a statement (or statements). Now I know that positive-positive tags can also be used with a rising intonation and sound sarcastically suspicious.  
  
MrPedantic  #196146  Mon, 13 Feb 06 01:59 AM

Is a negative-negative tag possible in a rhetorical question; or am I just tired and confused? e.g. one MI5 officer to another:

1. I see. So he won't talk, won't he. Well, we'll soon see about that... <fiendish cackle>

MrP

  
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Teo  #196238  Mon, 13 Feb 06 09:04 AM

%He isn't ill, isn't he?

The above sentence is quoted from The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, Cambridge University Press 2002. The symbol % indicates the status of the following example: He hadn't many friends. [grammatical in some dialect(s) only]

According to the second edition of Practical English Usage, negative-negative tag questions are only possible in British English.

Since modern British English is currently being quite strongly influenced by American English, the negative-negative question tag is probably becoming obsolete.

  
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