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saxon genitive once again :)

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Ej!_nihilist  #458272  Sat, 29 Dec 07 08:37 PM
Hi!
Is there any difference between "John's school" and "the school of John"?

Do they both express that "this is the school where is John going to"?

Thanks

  
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Grammar Geek  #458321  Sat, 29 Dec 07 11:51 PM

"The school of John" sounds highly unnatural.

99% of the time, "This is John's school" means this is where John attends or attended school. (Or possibly teaches.) (If John were the founder of a school, it could mean "This is the school that John founded.)

  
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Hoa Thai  #458362  Sun, 30 Dec 07 05:08 AM
Hi,

The majority of my club's new English learners often generalize B of A = A's B or vice versa. The formulae do not always work as Grammar Geek pointed out. I use them sparingly unless I sense that B is a member of A set, such as:  the cadets of the school = the school's cadets,  or  the windows of the house = the house's windows; or an ownership - for example, the cottage of the Jones = the Jones's cottage.  Even with that guide, I wonder whether an exception does exist!?

Regarding genitive case, the word genitive is broader than the term possessive. Below are a few examples:

John's house = the house that John owns (simple ownership).
John's block = the block that John lives on (John does not own the block, unless he is a gangster or mafia boss).
The children's books = the books that are written for the children (the children do not own the books).
The slaves' master = the master owns the slaves (the possessive is for the possessed rather than the possessor).

That said, I wish I could find a way to pin down a few rules of thumb that we can all rely on. So far, I've not been able to do so Smile [:)].

Best Regards,
Hoa Thai

  
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Best Regards - Hoa Thai
Anonymous  #458646  Sun, 30 Dec 07 10:56 PM
Thank you both for your effort.
It is highly appreciated and has helped me a lot in my frustrating studies Geeked [8-|]

If you don't mind, take a look at this:

bird's nest - the nest of the bird
birds' nest - the nest of more than one bird
birds nest - nest is a verb means "birds are building up their dwellings"
(I found another one "girls school" and here I am not sure whether is it the same principle or even if this construction is possible or not)
bird nest -  if anybody do know what it means, please, let me know. My guess is that it is just two-word noun saying which "kind of animals"
has built it.

Best regards!!!
[Wink [;)]]




  
Ej!_nihilist  #458647  Sun, 30 Dec 07 11:01 PM
Somehow I didn't manage to log on, so the previous/next??? anonymous post is by me.Big Smile [:D]

Peace!Wink [;)]


  
Hoa Thai  #458742  Mon, 31 Dec 07 09:08 AM
Hi,

According to WordNet - bird's nest, bird nest, and birdnest  = nest where birds lay their eggs and hatch their young. The phrases, however, by themselves, do not say whether the nest is human made or bird made; additional context is required. Moreover, as you might already know, people also talk about bird's nest soup, which is made from the saliva of birds / birds' saliva.

Regarding birds nest, your interpretation is all right if you use nest as a verb. However, girls school is a school that only girls attend.

Best wishes,
Hoa Thai
  
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