Sentence analysis

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Mister Micawber

#75970 Wed, 23 Feb 05 08:14 AM

There are a few nonpersonal agents (in the wider sense), Jim:

'Snow has covered the roof/ the roof has been covered by snow'. I can visualize the alibi impressing the policeman here-- especially if it is an airtight one.

Delving into Quirk produced for me four 'subclasses' of the process adverbial: manner ('casually', 'with deference'), means ('by bus', 'through insight'), instrument ('with a fork', 'using a dictionary') and agentive ('by John', 'by the earthquake').

Mister Micawber

Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004

Yokohama

Veteran Member (22,690)

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Casi

#76012 Wed, 23 Feb 05 11:18 AM

Can someone analyze this sentence?
She is so pretty a girl.
He is too bright a student to study with me.
How smart a student he is.

Well, what's your analysis?

Try looking at it this way:

pretty (of) a girl
bright (of) a student
smart (of) a student

Casi

Joined on Sat, Sep 25 2004

Regular Member (547)

Casi

#76014 Wed, 23 Feb 05 11:27 AM

Could someone help me with this explanation? I didn't understand it.

THE POLICEMAN: subject
WAS NOT IMPRESSED: passive verb phrase
BY YOUR ALIBI: agentive adverbial

"an agentive adverbial" is a by-phrase denoting the agent of a passive verb - another 'minor' subclass of adverbial.

An agentive adverbial, or "by-phrase", is just another way of saying the by-phrase is acceptable:

EX: The cake was eaten.

Adding 'by Max' renders the sentence odd.

EX: The police were not impressed.

Adding 'by Max' isn't necessary, but it's acceptable.

Casi

Verbs

CalifJim

#76096 Wed, 23 Feb 05 05:16 PM

Thanks Micawber -- I did not realize that "agent" extended to inanimates! Smile [:)]

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,792)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

CalifJim

#76098 Wed, 23 Feb 05 05:21 PM

Hi, Casi,

I just wanted to double-check.

"The cake was eaten by Max" is odd, you say.

May I ask in what way? (Because I would regard it as a textbook example of the passivization of "Max ate the cake".)

However, a sentence in which the addition of "by Max" would sound odd to me is, "The children were delighted". I was wondering if that's the sort of thing you meant.

Take care,
Jim

CalifJim

Regards

paco2004

#76139 Wed, 23 Feb 05 10:34 PM

English passive construction is a problem to me. There are many reasons why I feel it difficult to acquire.

A) English rather mandates to choose an active construct when the animate agent overtly appears. This rule seems rather rigorous especially the agent is a personal pronoun. We have not such a rule in my native language - Japanese.

B) English prohibits passivization of some sentences where the state of the object is not changed by the action/event.
(Ex) The students read the grammar books.
(??) The grammar books were read by the students.
This concept is also difficult for me to catch. For example, you NES would feel oddness in "My room was entered by a thief" but the equivalent Japanese sentence sounds quite natural to me.

C) English has many kinds of by-phrase and at least three kinds can appear in passive constructs.
(1) by instrument/mean (Ex) I'll send it by mail. It will be sent by mail
(2) by inanimate agent (Ex) The tsunami killed many people. Many people were killed by the tsunami.
(3) by animate agent (Ex) Max ate the cake. (??) The cake was eaten by Max.
I think the rule described in A) would be applied only to the case the agent is overtly animate.

These are the outline I understand about English passive construction. Am I right?

paco

paco2004

Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004

Senior Member (4,095)

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Grammar, Dates, Constructions, Nouns, Pronouns

Mister Micawber

#76153 Wed, 23 Feb 05 11:44 PM

I think 'prohibits' is too strong.
I think (C2) is irrelevant: 'I'll send it/it will be sent -- by mail/in a box/on Tuesday'
'The police were not impressed by Max's antics.'

That's all I have to say this early in the morning.

Mister Micawber

paco2004

#76177 Thu, 24 Feb 05 01:26 AM

Mr Micawber

Good morning! and thank you for your advice.
Sometimes I feel difficulty in distinguishing instrumental by-phrases from inanimate-agentive ones.
John impressed the girls by his friendly approach. [It would be an instrumental phrase]
The girls were impressed by his friendly approach. [Is this instrumental or agentive?]

paco

paco2004

MrPedantic

#76179 Thu, 24 Feb 05 01:42 AM

Hello Casi and CJ

I don't find the cake sentence odd either:

1. The cake was eaten by Max! (Said the famous detective, slapping his forehead in disbelief.)

As for:

2. The children were delighted by Max.

'Max delighted the children' would also seem odd; though if it were 'Max delighted the children with his peculiar antics', I think it would pass. Or 'the children were delighted by Max's peculiar antics'.

For some reason, 'delighted by Max' sounds somehow too intimate here.

?'It delighted me.'
?'Did it delight you?'
?'Please delight me...'

Hmm.

MrP

MrPedantic

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004

Veteran Member (12,168)

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