Sentence analysis 9/12/06

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Marius Hancu  #302299  Sat, 09 Dec 06 10:07 PM
 Inchoateknowledge wrote:
Tense simplification means the future tense is not always unnecessary in sub clauses, and not  that it is always wrong to use it.


You mean:
is not always necessary in sub clauses
I  guess.
  
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Inchoateknowledge  #302303  Sat, 09 Dec 06 10:18 PM

No

I meant what I wrote there.

sometimes will is an option,other times it is required.

not always unnecessary =  not always is it so that the use of will is an option. Sometimes will is required

Tongue Tied [:S] Wink [;)]

  
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Marius Hancu  #302306  Sat, 09 Dec 06 10:31 PM
 Inchoateknowledge wrote:

Tense simplification means the future tense is not always unnecessary in sub clauses, and not  that it is always wrong to use it.


OK, if this is what you mean, this is a very convoluted definition, one which I would not use, with two negations in sequence (not, un-).

What Swan says is more clear:
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Tense simplification in subordinate clauses

2) present instead of future

Present tenses are often used instead of will + infinitive to refer to the future in subordinate clauses.

I'll write to her when I have time (NOT ... when I will have time).

Swan, Practical English Usage
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Now, this is what I call a clear, positive, definition.


  
MrPedantic  #302334  Sun, 10 Dec 06 01:00 AM

To clarify:

1. A day will come when you will no longer remember my face.
— This is fine as it is; the 2nd "will" is predictive. The sentence has a slightly different meaning from the more neutral:

2. A day will come when you no longer remember my face.

3. Tell me when you will arrive.

— This too is fine. It means "tell me your expected time of arrival". It differs substantially from:

4. Tell me when you arrive.

which means "notify me on your arrival".

MrP

  
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Marius Hancu  #302338  Sun, 10 Dec 06 01:10 AM
 MrPedantic wrote:

To clarify:

1. A day will come when you will no longer remember my face.
— This is fine as it is; the 2nd "will" is predictive.

Somehow, _I_ feel that the prediction lies with the first "will," not sure if the 2nd is really necessary for the same effect.
  
MrPedantic  #302344  Sun, 10 Dec 06 01:29 AM

Not necessary for a similar effect; but I find the 2nd "will" intensifies the effect, and nullifies the possible temporal ambiguity. Cf.

1. The day will come when you no longer remember my face = ? when you no longer remember my face, the day will come.

But modal verbs are the cause of much dispute, on language forums; no doubt we're all calibrated slightly differently!

MrP

  
Hela  #302400  Sun, 10 Dec 06 07:25 AM

Dear MrP,

As you have pointed out, I don't think that the following sentence means much.

The day will come when you no longer remember my face = ? when you no longer remember my face, the day will come.

Now, would you please tell me how you would analyse "when" and its clause in the following:

The day will come when you will no longer remember my face.

All the best,

Hela

 

 

 

  
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Inchoateknowledge  #302425  Sun, 10 Dec 06 09:28 AM

The day will come when you will no longer remember my face.

when here is a time adverbial -- not even  a pronoun, let alone a relative pronoun.

 And it is also a conjunction word.

There is no relative clause here.

This is as obvious as the nose on your face.

when you will no longer remember my face is a wh clause(noun clause)

Hela, why do you not believe me?Smile [:)]

  
Anonymous  #302430  Sun, 10 Dec 06 09:57 AM

If I am not wrong,

the first sentence isrelative clause and the second one is a nominal clause.

But friends, I am not a member of this site so ı wanna ask my questions in this way.

Help me, please, the person asking this wuesiton and the ones who will answer.

Have you ever taken a grammar test so far and do you think gramar must be assessed in universal tests?

What do you think?

  
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