Sequence of tenses

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Fragles  #224523  Thu, 11 May 06 02:03 PM
"She said it was similar to the one she has."

Why "have" in this sentence is in present tense? Is "had" also possible in this case? If yes - is there a difference in meaning?
  
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Marius Hancu  #224527  Thu, 11 May 06 02:21 PM
had - much better in reported speech
  
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CalifJim  #224727  Fri, 12 May 06 02:37 AM
had is possible and is the norm.  With had you keep all the verbs in the past point of view.
However, you can use the present tense (but you don't have to), even when the preceding verb is in the past, if the situation still exists.  So has is used to indicate that she still has it.

CJ

  
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Grammar Geek  #224731  Fri, 12 May 06 02:47 AM

Whoops. Sorry. See below.

  
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Grammar Geek  #224733  Fri, 12 May 06 02:52 AM

The present tense makes perfect sense to me, which always makes me think I'm missing something.

I told my sister that I was thinking about getting a Pontiac Vibe and asked what she thought. She said it was similar to the car she has.

I asked Mary whether she thought this plasma TV was a good deal. She thought so, and said it was similar to the one she has.

Is the suggestion that if we want to keep it "has," the "was" should be an "is"? She said it IS similar to the one she HAS?

  
Siggy  #224779  Fri, 12 May 06 06:48 AM
In "She said it was similar to the one she has," the use of "has" suggests that whatever it is that she owns, she still owns it. If the word "had" had been used, that would have suggested that she no longer possesses "it."

The verb "has" can be used as both an auxiliary verb and a lexical verb; and in the latter case, it typically means "to own" or "to possess." If you change the sentence to "She said is was similar to the one she owns" or "She said it was similar to the one she owned," you'll see that both are still valid, but you get a better idea of whether she's talking about something she still possesses or something she no longer possesses.

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CalifJim  #224787  Fri, 12 May 06 07:24 AM
If the word "had" had been used, that would have suggested that she no longer possesses "it."

No, not at all.  It that were true, then

She said it was similar to the one she [owns/has].

would also mean that it used to be (was) similar but now it's different.  This is clearly not the intended meaning.

Backshifting is automatically understood as a convention in which the literal tense in the backshifted clause is not necessarily the true tense/time of the situation.

If I now say, for example,

In answering a post, I said that backshift was understood as a convention ...,

it does not suggest that it is no longer understood that way.

Similarly,  She said it was similar to the one she owned
does not suggest that she no longer owns it.  It is a possible reading, of course, but not necessarily the first interpretation that comes to the mind of the listener.  used to own would help guide the listener to the "no longer owns it" choice -- if it were important to do so.

CJ
  
Marius Hancu  #224997  Sat, 13 May 06 01:41 AM
 CalifJim wrote:

Backshifting is automatically understood as a convention in which the literal tense in the backshifted clause is not necessarily the true tense/time of the situation.
This is my understanding too.
  
MrPedantic  #224999  Sat, 13 May 06 01:54 AM

Yes; I understand it in the same way as CJ:

1. "She said it was similar to the X she had."
— Always correct, regardless of whether she still has the X.

2. "She said it was similar to the X she has."
— Correct if she still has the X.

3. "She said it's similar to the X she had."
— Correct if she no longer has the X.

4. "She said it's similar to the X she has."
— Correct if she still has the X.

I've noticed that native speakers will happily use the #1 format, while they're speaking without paying conscious attention to their grammar; but once they notice the apparent anomaly, doubt will set in.

MrP

  
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