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Latest post Tue, May 12 2009 8:31 PM by Mr Wordy. 5 replies.
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tinanam0102  +  726467 Tue, 12 May 09 09:30 AM
Hi,

 

The 10% spare packaging for model 1234 is ready, but it cannot ship together with the other shipment, JCR545A , which is from a different supplier.

 

The pandas will move to a new zoo or The pandas will be moved to a new zoo.

 

I'm very confused with these.

 

Thanks

TN

Best answer by Mr Wordy  +  726663 Tue, 12 May 09 12:47 PM
In your examples there's effectively little difference in meaning between the active and passive constructions. This is because packages can't ship themselves, and pandas can't move themselves to another zoo, so the presence of some agency doing these things is implied even if you use the active voice. The passive voice just brings that agency a little more to the fore.

 

In other contexts, there can be more of a difference:

 

"In the summer, he was shipped to New York" means that someone told him to go (or forced him to go). If he went of his own volition then you would have to say "In the summer, he shipped to New York."

 

"Last year, the pandas were moved to a nearby forest" means that someone moved them. If they moved of their own accord then you would have to say "Last year, the pandas moved to a nearby forest".

Best answer by Mr Wordy  +  726845 Tue, 12 May 09 03:32 PM
The word I used was "volition", not "violation". (Sorry, I have a bad habit of using difficult words in my replies here!) "Volition" means "the act of exercising one's own will". If one does something "of one's own volition" then one chooses to do it, as in "I moved to London". In the passive voice ("I was moved to London"), something is being done to someone or something, rather than that someone or something doing it by itself. There may be a sense of its being done "against one's will", but this is not necessarily the case.

 

The two further examples you give are similar to the first ones: there is not much difference between "was opened" and "opened" or "passed" and "was passed". When it's important to distinguish between something acting on something else, and something acting by itself, the active/passive distinction again comes into play. For example:

 

"The chasm opened beneath my feet" (nothing obvious was opening it)

"The door was opened for me" (someone opened it)

 

There are lots of verbs that work in a similar way: they can be used intransitively ("the tree shook") or in the passive voice ("the tree was shaken"). The general idea is usually the same (but there are no doubt some idiomatic usages that may not appear to work exactly in accordance with the rules).

All the other replies..
tinanam0102  +  726715 Tue, 12 May 09 01:36 PM
Hello,

 

If "violation against one's will" places a role in deciding whether active or passive should be chosen, how about the following examples I found from a dictionary.  Sometimes I can't even decide if a passive should be used.

 

1.  The Conference was opened on October 15   Vs   The fair opened on March 17.

2.   The bill finally passed.   Vs   The bill was passed in 1908.

 

Could you help explain if certain verbs can take either form?

 

Thank you very much for your help.

 

tinanam0102  +  726906 Tue, 12 May 09 04:34 PM
Hi Mr. Wordy,

 

I think of the verb "break".

 

"This cup breaks easily, and it's broken now.  It was broken by Tina."  This is something that always helps me to distinguish the passive from the active one.  Now I'm starting to think it's no longer the rule that guides.  

 

So in the case of "The tree shook", could it be like this scenario:   When my friend and I are in the garden in a quiet night, we suddenly hear "Fu Fu" (sound of the wind) and I turn around and see the tree shake. And my friend asks me, "What is it?" and I tell her, "The tree shook".  (instead of telling her "the tree was shaken by the wind.  Or it could be evidently that there are a lot of leaves on the ground , and I'd tell her "The tree was vigorously shaken by heavy wind" ).   Is this rational to put it that way?  I hope I'm not holding you up.

 

Thanks

Tinanam

 

 

Mr Wordy  +  727184 Tue, 12 May 09 08:31 PM
In theory, "break" ought to work in broadly the same way as the other verbs that have been mentioned. In reality, though, things are more complicated because "broken" is one of those past participles that has a strong tendency to behave adjectivally. Uses such as "It's broken now" or "It was broken" often merely describe the state of the object, and the event and cause of its breaking, far from being brought to the fore (as one might expect), actually disappear into the background. (However, if you follow with a "by" clause -- "The cup was broken by Tina" -- then the full passive sense is restored.)

 

The past participles of the other verbs mentioned don't have this strong tendency to behave as adjectives. For example, in "The bill was passed", the sense that someone passed the bill is robust; "passed" is not merely an adjective describing the state of the bill. Similarly with "The door was opened", where there is a strong sense that someone opened the door.

 

Your examples about the tree are reasonable (though in reality, in your last example you'd be more likely to say something like "The tree must have been shaken by a strong wind").

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