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Latest post Wed, Jul 16 2008 5:09 PM by Huevos. 17 replies.
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pructus  +  541770 Tue, 15 Jul 08 11:16 AM

 

“He should have done it” is known to have the meaning, “He was supposed to do it, but he did not.”

 

But in the following passages, the “should have done” seems to mean something different.

 

The meaning of “He should have done it” in the following passages seem to be “He actually did/had done it”.

 

Am I thinking wrong?

 

Here are some examples… 

 

If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus. http://girltalk.blogs.com/  

-----> “If anyone should have done greater things” seems to mean “If anyone had done greater things”

 

  

If Y2K should have done one thing it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough ***, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/05/0216220&from=rss 

-----> If Y2K should have done one thing  = If Y2K had done one thing

 

 

If he should have done this, they would praise him.

http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/54372.pdf  

------> If he should have done this,  = If he had done this

 

  

No - what she did get (not any more then) was a big and clearly stated warning that the account was going to be renewed and a link to where she could go and "renew it". Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? Would she have received an oridnary account or what?

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=3182386  

------> if she should have done so = if she had done so


Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
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Huevos, 1 yr 130 days ago
 My feel for these sentences is that the writer believes that the if clause was not fulfilled in any of them.
Mr Wordy  +  541804 Tue, 15 Jul 08 01:41 PM
"Should" can be used with "if" to indicate a hypothetical future action, or a past action that might have happened but didn't, without any "ought to"/"supposed to" implication (I think this is a subjunctive use, but grammatical terminology is not my greatest strength!). To me, this usage is formal, or, especially in the past tense, old-fashioned. Typical examples:

If you should see her, tell her I miss her = If you see her, tell her I miss her

If he should try to sue me, he'll regret it = If he tries to sue me, he'll regret it

And, as you say,

Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? = If she had done so ...

If he should have done this, they would praise him. = If he had done this, they would praise him.

As far as your other examples are concerned:

If Y2K should have done one thing it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough ***, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

To me, this has the "ought to" meaning: Y2K ought to have done this, but it probably didn't. I'm inclined to this interpretation because of "I'm not sure it did", and also because the rest of the sentence is not written in the formal/old-fashioned style that I'd expect from someone using "should have done" in the other sense.

If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.

I'm not sure what the author means here. I naturally read the "ought to" meaning: he ought to have done greater things, but he didn't. But it seems an odd thing to say. 

Joined on Tue, May 27 2008
Senior Member 2,359
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Marius Hancu  +  541810 Tue, 15 Jul 08 01:58 PM
 Pructus:

 

Now if she should have done so - would we have been charged twice? = If she had done so ...

If he should have done this, they would praise him. = If he had done this, they would praise him.

Mr.  Wordy is giving you the standard English versions on the right. As I've told you already, what you have on the left is considered non-standard these days (no should/would in the if clause).  Use the link I gave you, and  don't  lose your time on non-standard stuff such as this. Write a paper like this and it will be rejected today. 

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Veteran Member 11,673
Marius Hancu  +  541815 Tue, 15 Jul 08 02:05 PM
Mr. Wordy said:

--

If anyone was too good to die, it was Jesus. If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.

I'm not sure what the author means here. I naturally read the "ought to" meaning: he ought to have done greater things, but he didn't. But it seems an odd thing to say.

----

I agree it's the  "ought to" meaning. According to the destiny/fate perhaps, he/Jesus ought to have done greater things, (but his fate destiny/changed because of the people/mortals???).  Not that strange to me.

pructus  +  541816 Tue, 15 Jul 08 02:07 PM

 
My thanks to all of you, Huevos, Mr Wordy and Marius !!


If Y2K should have done one thing
it would be to teach customers the dangers of being tied to a software provider who could say "oh yes we know, tough ***, upgrade for $1M". I'm not sure it did.

-----------> Isn't it natural to understand this one as meaning "If Y2K had done one thing, it would be to teach  ~ ~" 
 

It seems to be saying that atter Y2K, people now knows what to do, and what not to do…


If anyone should have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus.
------------> This one is saying, "It was Jesus." in past tense.  So, this one seems, to me, to be saying that, "If anyone had done greater things than ~~~, it was Jesus who did it."

Marius Hancu  +  541821 Tue, 15 Jul 08 02:14 PM
 >"If anyone had done greater things than ~~~, it was Jesus who did it."

You're right about the end, but the first part should be:

 If anyone ought to have done greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus."

or:

 If anyone had [past for must] to do  greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus."

thus this should have has the meaning ought to have/had to  

pructus  +  541827 Tue, 15 Jul 08 02:23 PM

Oh!

 

I see, Marius..

 

You are suggesting “ought to” to convey the feeling of alarm, surprise….

 

I understand about the “ought to” and I agree with you……

 

If anyone had to do greater things than walking dusty roads and talking with people too dense to understand him, it was Jesus."

This one with “have to do” is hard to understand….

If “have to” means must, then, can it also mean, “If anyone did something” ?

 

Marius Hancu  +  541832 Tue, 15 Jul 08 02:34 PM
 >So, I want to say that, "If he                     that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.

This is present/future, not past.

If he does that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences. [perfectly OK

If you want to put more doubt on him doing that try:

If he were to do that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.

Were he to do that kind of thing, he will meet so and so consequences.

This is all present/future time, not past.  Perhaps Mr. Wordy has other suggestions.

BTW, were is allowed in if clauses.  

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