Should Taiwan be part of China?

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dabing  #74685  Thu, 17 Feb 05 09:10 PM
Your knowlege of history is not bad,but I cannot agree to your opinion in the last paragraph.As you said,Taiwan has been a part of china since ming dynasty,so is it now!Although problems in china are here and there,also there are several problems in h.k,while actually that is normal,what is more important, the people in taiwan hk or mainland,they are all chinese,when some of them have got problems,the parts left should fight against the problems with them but not leave them!!

A korean in the UK
  
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Guest  #76678  Sat, 26 Feb 05 03:09 AM
Two things to consider:

1) this would not even be a question if Beijing did not have nukes.

2) if one looked at Mao and Washington analagously, one may see some parallels. both rose against the powers in charge at the time. the difference is what was left after secession (ie Taiwain and the rest of the British empire).

the Americans did not demand Scotland, too.
  
Guest  #83983  Sat, 26 Mar 05 02:51 AM
The Goumingtong originally ruled China through the Nationalists, who invited the Communists in China to be a apart of the government; however, the Nationalists abused their power and tried to eradicate the Communists, who came back and expelled the Nationalists to Taiwan. In Taiwan, the Nationalists set up a temporary government with the aid of the United States under Martial Law. According to the Constitution, the President of the Republic of China can only be elected by the National Assembly, not by the population of Taiwan, so when martial law was lifted in the 1980's, and a President was elected by the people of Taiwan, the Republic of China became illegitimate. The Nationalists who set up the Republic of China in Taiwan was in a civil war with the Communists at the time and is still in the spat, however, the local Taiwanese want to overturn the Constitution, since the old guard of the Republic has died out or retired, who, like their counterparts in China want unification. The ethnic Chinese of Taiwan want unification and are aware of the history that goes along with the Communist/Nationalist civil war. Taiwan's current government under an illegitimate President wants to in effect say Taiwan is an independent nation, with the name Republic of China, that has jurisdiction over all of China which are renegade provinces that need to be subdued if you follow what is in ROC's Constitution, which Communist China will abviously reject. To really understand this issue you must know the history of the case.

What will really happen after Taiwan unfiies with the mainland? The Taiwanese that are in power now, would lose their power, the Nationalists would lose their power, and the Communists would put their own people in charge. The way of life Taiwan has sustained since the Nationalists came to Taiwan will come to an end or at least be altered. China does not threaten to blow up the whole of Taiwan; it has not threatened to engage in nuclear war as North Korea is doing; China part of the United Nations, which sanctions such actions. The argument that China only wants the land instead of the people in Taiwan is erroneous; there are many Chinese ethnic people in addition to the indigenous Taiwanese on the island; the issue is reunification, not genoicide.

The leaders of China know have established a new foreign policy in regard to Japan; they really want a friendly atmosphere with the Japanese because Japan invests heavily in China and it would become counterproductive in establishing a stable growing economy, however, many Chinese resent the Japanese for the war atrocities suffered by them; if someone raped and killed your family, you would hate them, too; but if your brother killed another one of your brothers, you probably wouldn't hate them as much.

China has never elected its leaders; Chinese civilization depends on the Mandate of Heaven; a ruling government is established by the Mandate of Heaven, not by popular vote as it it was in Greece and Rome (in the form of a Republic) which later influenced the Enlightenment (which did not occur in China) and the French Revolution (which also did not occur in China). And through Imperialism, Europe colonized the world and imposed Greek and Roman forms of government on the world.

I think every government is subversive in revealing the truth. I don't believe any paper in the world tells the whole truth; they all probably have their own interests at heart and national interests at heart.
  
YoungCalifornian  #84149  Sat, 26 Mar 05 08:37 PM
I don't understand the argument that because Taiwan has historically been part of China that it still is today. Governments and borders change throughout history, folks. North Korea and South Korea were historically one country, and the people of both are considered one nationality, but that doesn't mean that they are the same state. Similarly, I feel that the people of Taiwan can still be considered "Chinese" without submitting their sovereignty to the People's Republic of China. I would expect that were the Chinese to dissolve their communist regime, the people of Taiwan would likely seek to rejoin politically with the mainland. For a precedent I look to East and West Germany.

I noticed that some of the posters here have claimed that young Taiwanese have been brainwashed, not because they are stupid but because they are naive. Well, without trying to sound too harsh, I find that sentiment to be very naive. The fact that most Taiwanese have different political ideologies than the mainland Chinese does not mean that by educating their children as to their beliefs they are "brainwashing" them. The irony I find here is that the government of mainland China is the one constantly cited for squashing dissident opinions.

Whatever one's beliefs are on the issue, the fact still remains that as of right now, Taiwan is a separate state from China. The government of the People's Republic does not exercise political control over the island. Nobody has to like it, but that is the present situation.
  
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julielai  #84162  Sat, 26 Mar 05 10:18 PM

Perhaps this would help:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/taiwan_history.asp

Quote: The Dutch, however, succeeded in expelling the Spaniards in 1641 and assumed control of the entire island. They in turn were forced to abandon Taiwan in 1662, when Koxinga, a general of the Ming dynasty of China who had to flee from the Manchus, seized the island and established an independent kingdom. However, the island fell to the Manchus in 1683.
  
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sumspeople  #84715  Tue, 29 Mar 05 05:49 AM
yes ,i agreedwith you for your views . the final method of rejoining the mainland and taiwan may be the overturning of the mainland communist party regime .that can further the democracy development of Great China , which can truly solve the cross-strait issue in the long term . HOWEVER , at present , there are no hints of fall of the communist party regime .we have to be faced up with this unchangable fact .So sometimes , people in mainland may hold the views that if War break out between Mainland and TAIWAN , THE MAINLAND government may quickly lose its control when failing in the WAR.BUT , NO ONE CAN PREDICT THAT .............................
  
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oncogene  #93838  Wed, 27 Apr 05 07:20 AM
Taiwan is no doubtly a part of China. This is accepted widely by international society. No one can change this fact. Every country that have diplomatic relations with PR China holds the opinon that there is only one China in the world and taiwan is an inseparable part of China. Of course these countries include the US, Japan, Germany, the Great Britain, Freance, Italy, and so on.
  
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Ja-Mez  #93879  Wed, 27 Apr 05 11:13 AM
"Taiwan is no doubtly a part of China."

Don't even get into that man. That's like a swear word to my ears.

In 1895, after losing in the first Sino-Japanese War, China gave some land to Japan, including Korea and Taiwan, making Taiwan technically a part of Japan. Now, fast-forward to 1949 when World War II has long since ended and the Chinese Civil War also concluded. Japan has been told to give back its seized land (since Japan lost World War II) but no treaties have been signed to put that in effect. Nevertheless the KMT government, which has lost the Civil War, flees to Taiwan anyway and sets up their own life there. Now, in 1951 and 1952 two treaties are signed, the Treaty of San Francisco and the Treaty of Taipei, that free Taiwan of Japanese hold. HOWEVER, of these two treaties, NEITHER mentions whether the island is to be given back to China or returned to the people of Taiwan.

So don't give me a "Taiwan is an inseperable part of China."

Furthermore, when the KMT still governed the mainland, they wrote a Constitution in 1946. When the CCP (Communists) defeated them in 1949, they took their laws to Taiwan with them. Back on the mainland the Communists rewrote the KMT's Consitution and replaced it to fit the Commie structure. Now, we have two constitutions here. One country? I don't think so.
  
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Guest  #93881  Wed, 27 Apr 05 11:16 AM
In my opinion Onkogene's post is absolute rubbish!
Why did so many people flee Communist China and go to Taiwan? It was to seperate themselves from China. This is historical fact ... no matter how much the Chinese goverment tries to rewrite history.
On the subject of rewriting history, China should have a close look at it's own past AND present aggressions before throwing stones at Japan - who is actually contributing huge financial amounts to the Chinese economy to aid development. Could it have been Japan's announcement that she would be reviewing those massive contributions that prompted the Chinese goverment to turn a blind eye to the recent violent anti-Japanese demonstrations - or worse still, to actually incite them?
  
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