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nona the brit  +  361426 Mon, 07 May 07 11:28 AM

Clearly different countries have different approaches to this. In the UK you can tap your kid with a teaspoon but you'd be very likely to be prosecuted for deliberately burning a childs face or fingers.

Anyway if a tap with a teaspoon can cause brain damage you seriously need to increase the calcium in Australian children's diet so that they can have normal skulls like everyone else. lol. Big Smile [:D].

Bowing out of this discussion as it is getting far too silly for me.

Joined on Wed, Sep 22 2004
England
Veteran Member 11,713
The name says it all.
Stannum  +  361878 Tue, 08 May 07 06:05 AM

You considered it wuite cool to speak of the mattewr until I answered a question about the illegality of using an impliment to 'bop' the growing cranium of young children.  The soft spot doesn't even fully harden in the first year or so so we Aussie colonials decided that the soft skulls of our most vulnerable sould be protected from being hit by dead objects. At least if the step mum uses her hand she will have better feed back about the effects of the 'bop'

Stannum

Remaining firmly in the discussion in defence of the voiceless.

Joined on Fri, Oct 28 2005
Melbourne Australia
Regular Member 526
julielai  +  361884 Tue, 08 May 07 06:41 AM

Remaining firmly in the discussion in defence of the voiceless.

I'm not voiceless, Stannum. I, along with many in my generation, got beaten by parents regularly.  And beating was very common in the old days.  I never have a need to see a doctor or a psychologist because of the beating. I, like thousands of others and god knows how many in the old days who were beaten as a child, grew up to be perfectly normal.

I'm not saying beating worked.  It didn't -- for me. But this was part of the old culture, and I accepted it as part of the old-fashioned way of dealing with things as I grew up. The beating didn't bother me as much as the scolding -- truth be told. Often I'd rather my parents beat me than scold me (their words were meaner, or so I thought).

But before anyone goes on and on about children being permanently damaged, please check with someone who lived through regular beating first. And I'm the first to tell you that I accepted it as the way my parents dealt with things.

But of course, child abuse is another matter.  Doctors are told to keep an eye on suspicious cases involving children that need medical treatment.

Joined on Sun, Oct 24 2004
Senior Member 3,827
Just another blogger (http://hk.myblog.yahoo.com/julie-lai)
Stannum  +  361917 Tue, 08 May 07 08:42 AM

Ergo you are not voiceless so I am not in defence of you.

I remain firmly in defence of the voiceless.

Stannum

Not being the voice of an entire generation

(edited to remove formatting issues)

julielai  +  361986 Tue, 08 May 07 01:12 PM

Yes, people who get an occasional "bop" in the head or a minor beating aren't voiceless. We were free to talk about it -- occasionally brought it up in school, as a matter of fact.  My nephews talk about it too. Not voiceless at all. None of these parents keep their kids from speaking to others about it.

Remember also that children get similar injuries all by themselves just by bumping into something. We don't consider those or bops on the head permanent injuries. We never saw the doctor, mind you.

Those who can't speak up are the ones who go to the hospital, with parents lying to cover up the wounds. I applaud your effort to speak up for those cases.

We've practically beaten the subject to death. I suggest we leave the thread as it is for a week or two, then come back to see if anyone has a new line of argument.

Alexa For Australia  +  362008 Tue, 08 May 07 01:51 PM

The occasional "bop" in the head or a "minor" beating would land a Spanish parent in jail as fast as lighting.

I am quite surprised such things are not punished by law in GB. However, such information comes in handy for the next time a British Citizen mentions the cruelty that us Spanish people show towards poor bulls.

I agree that physical punishment was usually used by parents of older generations, and that it was accepted everywhere. But so was slavery, Possibly slavery did not cause permanent damage to the people who suffered it either.

Alexa

Joined on Tue, May 1 2007
Al Andalus, Ground Control.
Full Member 153
Murphy's Golden Law: Whoever has the power makes the rules.
julielai  +  362028 Tue, 08 May 07 02:34 PM

Your logic: Slavery is evil and long-standing.

Physical punishment is long-standing. So physical punishment is evil.

Like I said, many of us grow up to be perfectly normal. What more do you need?

That said, I do not believe in physical punishment as an effective way of punishment in general.

Unless you know firsthand what it is like, please do not presume you know it. It is presumptive and inconsiderate for those who have experienced it. Thank you.

I suggest we leave the thread alone for a week or so and come back to see if anyone has a new line of argument. Everyone has said the same thing like 5 times. When we come back, I hope everyone leaves the permanent damage thing off the table.

julielai  +  362920 Thu, 10 May 07 01:53 PM

After having a discussion with an admin and a user over who should or shouldn't lock threads (see Comments), I've decided to unlock this thread so discussions can continue.

Let me summarize what has been discussed.

Arguments brought up:

1. A is okay/not okay because it is legal or illegal in Country Y.  e.g. A is not okay because it's illegal, and one shouldn't break the law. Of course, this argument holds true only in a geographic region. Participants should know why Country Y's law is superior to, say, Country X's.

2. A is effective/ineffective. Support mostly from empirical evidence.

3. A is/is not harmful psychologically or physically. Again, support mostly from personal experience or empirical evidence.

Support used to back up arguments so far -- observations and empirical evidence. While this proves a claim may not be universal, empirical evidence cannot prove universal truths either. (Yes, that includes what I said earlier too)

I don't think anyone has discussed how a certain type of parenting shapes the relationship between a parent and a child.  This is probably a much neglected but very important topic.

If you connect 1, 2, 3 in an argument or try to disprove what another person says, please provide solid reasoning or support for your point.

Please continue, but remember to back up your argument with empirical evidence, research, facts or figures. Mere assertions like "this is better" or "this is bad" or "I do this" or "my parents do that" aren't enough, unless you tell us what the outcome is or isn't.  And please do not antagonize any particular poster for the sake of continuing the discussion to infinity. Once a point is made, there's no need to repeat it multiple times. Move to the next point.

Thank you!

(I've unlocked enough posts for this to continue, but as I find out , it's a nuisance to unlock threads.)

Anonymous, 2 yr 180 days ago

As a child it worked for me and it seems to work for some of my children as well.  Although it is for wveryone

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