since

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Anonymous

#195233 Fri, 10 Feb 06 10:49 PM

Which one(s) is / are idiomatic (correct and natural)?

SINCE ( as a time conjunction)
1- I haven't seen them since they were married.
2- I haven't seen them since they have been married.
3- I hadn't seen them since they were married.
4- I hadn't seen them since they had been married.
5- I don't see them since they were married.
6- I didn't see them since they were married.
7- I didn't see them since they had been married.

Anonymous

Mister Micawber

#195289 Sat, 11 Feb 06 01:43 AM

#s 1 and 3.

Mister Micawber

Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004

Yokohama

Veteran Member (21,223)

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

Anonymous

#195420 Sat, 11 Feb 06 10:15 AM

thank you very much. Can you comment on these sentences?

1. Since 1998, UT admissions does not require top-10 percenters to submit any test scores, although most do.

(here I don't understand why simple present is used instead of present perfect)

here

2. Indeed, to Telli's knowledge, no-one from the settlement had ever even seen a human being from outside the community since their ancestors had arrived there with Drakis the prophet three centuries before.

(here it seems to me as if the use of "had arrived" after "since" is natural, but you considered "I hadn't seen them since they had been married" wrong. Then, would this be correct too: "I hadn't seen them since they had been married three years before.")

here

3. Has anyone ever escaped the Khrelling since you have been here, Seth?

( Why not "were" instead of "have been" after "since"?

here

4. He ate well for the first time since he had left the camp for his last shift of work.

(to me, this is the weirdest one. O wonder whether "since" here is used as a time conjunction or reason conjunction. If time conjunction, how can you explain its use in this sequence? "simple past // since // past perfect"

here

5. By now most language teachers in the United States and Canada have heard about my Total Physical Response (TPR) approach. (Asher)

(here is it possible to use any other tenses instead of present perfect?)

6. I am the legitimate candidate for it since 1998.

(here is it corect to use "am"?)

7. We lead a very quiet life since Ralph retired.

(Is "since" a reason conjunction here? If it is a time conjunction, is there anything wrong with tense choices?"

Anonymous

Simple present, Dates, Tenses, Past perfect, Simple past, Present perfect

Mister Micawber

#195847 Sun, 12 Feb 06 11:30 AM

#1-- I consider it sloppy, and notice that it comes from the pen of a newspaper journalist.

#2-- The had arrived is 'hypercorrection'-- the writer thinks he needs it, but he does not. Again, the source is literarily suspect: a free fantasy online e-novel!

#3-- Interesting. I would accept this one. Both timeframes are the same. I suppose there is a footnote for this kind of usage in the grammar books somewhere.

#4-- Another hypercorrection from the same fantasy e-novel.

#5-- Will have heard.

#6-- No. Awful.

#7-- Not a reason conjunction. Tense is OK: retirement is a point event. Oh, you mean lead. I'd much prefer we have been leading, but I recognize lead as a common shortcut: it is an expression of 'timeless state', I suppose.

There may be other opinions.

Mister Micawber

Grammar, Tenses, Expressions

Anonymous

#195861 Sun, 12 Feb 06 12:24 PM

Mister Micawber wrote:

#2-- The had arrived is 'hypercorrection'-- the writer thinks he needs it, but he does not. Again, the source is literarily suspect: a free fantasy online e-novel!

#3-- Interesting. I would accept this one. Both timeframes are the same. I suppose there is a footnote for this kind of usage in the grammar books somewhere.

#5-- Will have heard.

#7-- Not a reason conjunction. Tense is OK: retirement is a point event. Oh, you mean lead. I'd much prefer we have been leading, but I recognize lead as a common shortcut: it is an expression of 'timeless state', I suppose.

There may be other opinions.

Mister Micawber, thank you for your explanations. Are so illuminating.

Anonymous

Grammar, Tenses, Expressions

Anonymous

#195862 Sun, 12 Feb 06 12:26 PM

Mister Micawber wrote:

#2-- The had arrived is 'hypercorrection'-- the writer thinks he needs it, but he does not. Again, the source is literarily suspect: a free fantasy online e-novel!

#3-- Interesting. I would accept this one. Both timeframes are the same. I suppose there is a footnote for this kind of usage in the grammar books somewhere.

#5-- Will have heard.

#7-- Not a reason conjunction. Tense is OK: retirement is a point event. Oh, you mean lead. I'd much prefer we have been leading, but I recognize lead as a common shortcut: it is an expression of 'timeless state', I suppose.

There may be other opinions.

Mister Micawber, thank you for your explanations. Are so illuminating. but as to 5, can "by now" really be used "will have heard"? Isn't "by now" up to now, until now? Has it anything to do with future?

Anonymous

Grammar, Tenses, Expressions

Mister Micawber

#195871 Sun, 12 Feb 06 12:45 PM

Has it anything to do with future?

That thought occurred to me, too, as I was writing, but the imp in me let it pass. It seemed to fit-- I think it is what is called 'timeless prediction': A dog will always chase cats.