Trex  +  395775 Mon, 23 Jul 07 07:29 PM But since an economic boom in the 1980s, large numbers of rural Turks moved to the cities, forming a new Islamic middle class with its own wealthy elite. (NYTimes)   Why  the Simple Past Tense? Why not the Present Perfect? Trex Joined on Sat, May 19 2007 Junior Member 69 Tenses, Simple Past, Present Perfect, Past Tenses

	CalifJim  +  395778 Mon, 23 Jul 07 07:37 PM Excellent question!  I would have written have moved.  I see this is from the New York Times.  Note that in American English, the simple past is sometimes used where the present perfect is expected. CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,447 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Simple Past, Present Perfect

	Trex  +  395820 Mon, 23 Jul 07 09:12 PM Yes, it is from NYTimes. The last paragraph. And what you said is really interesting. Thank you, Jim. here Trex Paragraphs

	Kooyeen  +  395829 Mon, 23 Jul 07 09:36 PM That could be a mistake... you know, like when you say that you saw a movie back in 1945, when you were young, and you don't like it. Didn't like it. Kooyeen Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005 Italy Senior Member 4,980 Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts

	Trex  +  396028 Tue, 24 Jul 07 12:38 PM What about this, Jim? Children don't play outside as much since computer games arrived. (Longman) It seems the use of since is not restricted to the perfect tenses in the main clause. What do you think? Trex Tenses, Clauses

	Marius Hancu  +  396032 Tue, 24 Jul 07 01:09 PM ------ But since an economic boom in the 1980s, large numbers of rural Turks moved to the cities, forming a new Islamic middle class with its own wealthy elite. That religious class, in the form of Mr. Erdogan’s party, pushed to the upper reaches of the state’s power in April, when it tried to capture the presidency ------ A possible explanation for the simple past may be that the author considers the period since 1980s  to last April, not to today. Marius Hancu Joined on Wed, Apr 26 2006 Veteran Member 11,673 Simple Past

	Linguaphile  +  396097 Tue, 24 Jul 07 03:46 PM  Marius Hancu wrote: ------ But since an economic boom in the 1980s, large numbers of rural Turks moved to the cities, forming a new Islamic middle class with its own wealthy elite. That religious class, in the form of Mr. Erdogan’s party, pushed to the upper reaches of the state’s power in April, when it tried to capture the presidency ------ A possible explanation for the simple past may be that the author considers the period since 1980s  to last April, not to today. I don't think so. The move should have ended in April then, but that's not the fact. April has nothing to do with the move from the countryside to the cities, but the author might mistakenly be considering that the move ended.  Linguaphile Joined on Tue, Jul 17 2007 Turkey Full Member 140 Simple Past

	CalifJim  +  396230 Tue, 24 Jul 07 09:51 PM Children don't play outside as much since computer games arrived. (Longman) It seems the use of since is not restricted to the perfect tenses in the main clause. What do you think? I think that's right.  Here you have a very good sentence with since, and you have the present tense in the main clause. CJ CalifJim Tenses, Clauses, Present Tenses

	Kooyeen  +  396244 Tue, 24 Jul 07 10:39 PM  CalifJim wrote: Children don't play outside as much since computer games arrived. (Longman) It seems the use of since is not restricted to the perfect tenses in the main clause. What do you think? I think that's right.  Here you have a very good sentence with since, and you have the present tense in the main clause. I learned that happens when we talk about changes: - She's not the same anymore since her father died. - Ever since you joined that cult, you are a completely different person. Kooyeen Tenses, Clauses, Present Tenses