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Teo  #208396  Wed, 22 Mar 06 08:41 AM

 CalifJim wrote:
English standard in the US is declining


It always comes from the top down, doesn't it?  Why, just today I heard George say, "History tells us that democracies don't war."

I'm sorry but what's wrong with the sentence in blue?

  
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pieanne  #208403  Wed, 22 Mar 06 09:07 AM

Well, "war" is not a verb...

  
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Clive  #208460  Wed, 22 Mar 06 01:58 PM

Hi guys,

"History tells us that democracies don't war."

'War' is indeed a verb, albeit a somewhat odd, uncommon and almost biblical-sounding one. It certainly sounds odd when used here in the present tense. My dictionary suggests that only the forms 'warred' or 'warring' are used. As an adjective, of course, 'warring' is not uncommon, particularly in 'newspaper language'.

Google has 0.5 million hits for 'warred'. And he went forth and warred against the Philistines

Having said all this, I wouldn't recommend its use to English learners.

Best wishes, Clive


 

  
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pieanne  #208484  Wed, 22 Mar 06 03:12 PM
Oops, sorry, then! I know "warring", but "war" as a verb isn't in the Cambridge (online).
  
Anonymous  #444828  Wed, 21 Nov 07 03:07 PM
I have the same doubt, is it possible to say "I´´ve had this bag since a month ago"?? Please, I need a quick answer. Thanks. Delia.
  
pieanne  #444832  Wed, 21 Nov 07 03:26 PM
You should read the begining of the thread, you'll find an answer, I'm sure
  
Goodman  #444899  Wed, 21 Nov 07 07:06 PM

 Anonymous wrote:
I have the same doubt, is it possible to say "I´´ve had this bag since a month ago"?? Please, I need a quick answer. Thanks. Delia.

Ago – is associated with time passed i.e. 2 days ago ,a week ago.

I saw the movie “American Gangsters” last week. I liked it. (not I have liked it). You saw the movie, which was a completed event. Therefore, we can't use present perfect tense for finished events.

Since – suggest a point in time passed all the way to the present. i.e. I have lived in the US since I was 15 years old.  Or, I have not been back to my country since I became a US citizen. The part about your “not having been back” is still true. Therefore, present perfect should be used.

We can not say “ I have not been back to my country since 10 years ago.

Since and ago can not coexist in the same present perfect structure.

  
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Hoa Thai  #444998  Thu, 22 Nov 07 01:57 AM

Hi Goodman,

Maybe I should not touch your nerve again - You are so expressive and I am scared! (for your heart and for my embarrassment).Smile [:)]

However, I must present my thought to find out what is wrong with it. Here I come.

I haven’t been myself since yesterday. Yesterday marks a complete past.
I haven’t been myself since I met you.  Met marks a complete past.

Today is 11/22/2007. Two days ago means 11/20/2007, which marks a complete past. Thus, ‘I haven’t been myself since 11/20/2007’ is the same as ‘I haven’t been myself since two days ago.”

That is where my brain becomes confused with your reasoning.

Now regarding your comment about native people might not be better than non-natives in using good English – I understand why you said that: the seemingly biased view causes pain to people who do not belong to the regarded circle. However, we must accept the fact that “perfection is the result of constant use.” (Of course, constantly use in a wrong way will form a bad habit). When ESL learners come to forums like this, with fresh learning, they want a confirmation of people who they trust to take them to the next plateau of knowledge; and they rely on native, know-best, English teachers. I am one of them! (not the teacher, but the learner - mind you). It is up to each learner to ask, validate, and ask again. Knowledge seekers are smart people, they will form their own opinion about a forum debate. And if a non-native English speaker like you can regularly give the information seekers sensible GOOD ENGLISH answers, I think you would establish a good image for yourself.

Here is what Edward D Goodman, an excellent writer, editor, and a scholar in my eye, writes, “ … good English is a kind of snobbery, It is not standard English but the English of a minority who are likely to consider themselves superior, and are also likely to be considered superior by others. English that is good enough in one context may not be good enough in another, and thus good English amounts to savor faire, a touchstone of the snob. All of us fail to use it occasionally, and some of us fail to use it frequently. Those who fail infrequently look down on those who fail frequently; those who fail frequently either live in constant fear of embarrassing themselves or find some way of taking pride in their unvarnished expression. Those who fail infrequently make further distinctions among themselves; the famous grammarian H.W.Fowler observed, “Almost every man is potentially a purist and a sloven at once to persons looking at him from a lower and a higher position …. than his own.”” I don't quite grasp what is in his mind - but I sure want to climb the knowledge hill and find the pleasure in use the language,

I am still wondering why Clive though Anon was me! I take that as a complement for a uniqueness of my writing style, which I don’t even know I have one.Smile [:)]

Best to all,
Hoa Thai

  
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Yankee  #444999  Thu, 22 Nov 07 01:58 AM
I agree with Clive's take. Wink [;)]

The word since refers to a specific point in the past, using it as the starting point of an activity which has continued up to now.  The phrase "a month ago" is a specific point in past time.  Therefore, although I  agree that "for a month" would be the more common usage, I see nothing wrong with using "since a month ago".
  
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