singular / plural

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Anonymous  #563805  Mon, 08 Sep 08 03:52 PM
This is an example of a grammar issue that is made difficult because frequent usage of the "a lot" construction in informal conversation makes it tricky to say what is correct based on how it "sounds."  Whether the nouns are countable/uncountable or singular/plural is beside the point; as they are part of a prepositional phrase, they are really only serving as part of a modifier.  "Lot" is the noun to be concerned with.

You wouldn't say, "There were a group of children at the playground."  "Group" implies many children, but the noun itself is singular.  It *would* be correct to say, "There were several groups of children at the playground," however.  The expression "a lot" works similarly.
  
Cool Breeze  #563814  Mon, 08 Sep 08 04:26 PM
Anonymous

You wouldn't say, "There were a group of children at the playground." 

 

I would. You might not say that, especially if you are American.

CB

  
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Cool Breeze  #563815  Mon, 08 Sep 08 04:29 PM
Anonymous

Look at it like this. When you're referring to singular nouns, it's always singular even if there are lots of them. Here's an example:

What was in the room?

There WAS a television, a radio, a sofa and a table.


 

Most grammarians accept: There was/were a television, a radio, a sofa and a table.

CB

  
Goodman  #563823  Mon, 08 Sep 08 04:48 PM
<<<<and "most grammarians accept "there was/were a television, a radio, a sofa and a table" >>>  I guess I am not a grammarian.(:D) Big Smile
I personally won't say "there were a television.."
  
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Cool Breeze  #563866  Mon, 08 Sep 08 07:16 PM
Goodman
<<<<and "most grammarians accept "there was/were a television, a radio, a sofa and a table" >>>  I guess I am not a grammarian.(:D) Big Smile
I personally won't say "there were a television.."

 

No, I didn't think you would. To a grammarian, there is more to it than the next word. There are at least three views on this.

1. The rule of proximity: The first word after the verb is singular (a television), so a singular verb (was) can/should be used.

2. The rule of number: If only one thing is mentioned, use a singular verb (was); if more things are mentioned, use a plural verb (were). I remember a British graduate of Oxford University who lectured on English Philology at Helsinki University and was an enthusiastic proponent of this rule. He considered was wrong in cases like this. Similarly, he considered media is and algae is always wrong as well. I use the past tense because he is no longer alive.

3. Liberal grammarians, who don't really care which one of the above rules is applied. (As I said, I'm one of them!)

CB

  
Inchoateknowledge  #563871  Mon, 08 Sep 08 07:35 PM
My bread and butter is teaching English.
When the compound subject is treated or considered as a unit, use a singular verb. When it is treated otherwise, both the plural and singular is okay.
There was chocolate and (there was) flour on the floor.
There were chocolate and floor on the ... (two substances).
There was(-->proximity rule)/were a ball and to rackets.



  
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Cool Breeze  #563890  Mon, 08 Sep 08 09:04 PM
Inchoateknowledge
When it is treated otherwise, both [the] plural and singular is are okay.

 

Hey, Incho! Where have you been? I'm glad you're back! Remember, though, you and I are not always right. There are many opinions. Chairman Mao once said something about allowing all flowers blossom. I really don't know how that was translated into English. In China, however, only his flower was allowed to blossom. 

Incidentally, I wouldn't use is with both but if you insist on that, it's just fine with me!Smile

CB

  
Inchoateknowledge  #564054  Tue, 09 Sep 08 08:03 AM
Hello CB,

I have been where angels fear to thread. (Y) Yes
you are glad? Makes me glad but I do not think I will raise my ugly head too much here.
"Let a thousand flowers bloom, a hundred schools of thought contend" Mao Tse Tung (Y) Yes

That both thing, I would not normally use either. However, I do not see any problem with the article you bracketed. (8o|) Super Angry 
Seems I am just losing my grip of the English language. Not that I had ever any too strong hold. I had always hold on to it like grim death. In vain.(Y) Yes
  
Cool Breeze  #564058  Tue, 09 Sep 08 08:44 AM
Inchoateknowledge
However, I do not see any problem with the article you bracketed. (8o|) Super Angry 

 

Nor do I! Square brackets just indicate it's optional. In this case the reason is that singular and plural are opposites. Other examples: from morning till evening, from east to west.

CB

  
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