So a noun is an adjective?

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Anonymous  #278896  Tue, 10 Oct 06 11:47 PM

What's wrong with this description?

"We can also use a noun (e.g. television) as an adjective. We can put it before a noun (e.g. programme)." [OPG, p.190]

  
MrPedantic  #278899  Tue, 10 Oct 06 11:58 PM

Which part do you think is wrong, Anon?

MrP

  
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Cool Breeze  #279881  Thu, 12 Oct 06 10:46 PM
 Anonymous wrote:

What's wrong with this description?

"We can also use a noun (e.g. television) as an adjective. We can put it before a noun (e.g. programme)." [OPG, p.190]


A noun can't always be used adjectivally. For example man clothes is wrong.

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CalifJim  #279964  Fri, 13 Oct 06 03:13 AM
The statement doesn't say that a noun can always be so used.

Do you take this as wrong

We can use compounds of chlorine to whiten clothes.


because common table salt is a chlorine compound, and it can't used to whiten clothes?

If there's something wrong with the statement about nouns, it must be something else.

CJ

  
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milky  #280081  Fri, 13 Oct 06 08:42 AM
 Anonymous wrote:

What's wrong with this description?

"We can also use a noun (e.g. television) as an adjective. We can put it before a noun (e.g. programme)." [OPG, p.190]

A noun is never an adjective, but it we say that certain nouns can be used adjectivally (i.e. when adjectivally means "in an adjectival manner") to modify another noun. Confusion of terminology is the problem there.

Adverb

  • S: (adv) adjectivally (as an adjective; in an adjectival manner)
  • S: (adj) adjectival, adjective (of or relating to or functioning as an adjective) "adjectival syntax"; "an adjective clause"
  
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CalifJim  #280408  Fri, 13 Oct 06 08:02 PM
Confusion of terminology is the problem there.


Yes.  And the problem runs even deeper into the whole idea of word classes ("parts of speech").  In your example, the obvious question is "Does the noun (television) remain a noun when used as an adjective, or does it become an adjective, or does it become both a noun and an adjective at the same time?"

We often speak of words as having fixed membership in a word class (noun, adjective, verb, ...) when in fact maybe we should speak of them as taking these membership properties quite flexibly from their functional context.

At various times students are told that tomorrow is an adverb, an adjective, a noun.
In the sentence below, it's a noun used as an adjective in a phrase used as an adverb.  Or is it something else?

I'll talk to you about it tomorrow morning.

More to the point, who really cares?  I know that millions of people use the word tomorrow correctly in all contexts without ever knowing which part of speech it is!  Or even what a "part of speech" is!  And yet, in some class rooms, hours and hours of instructional time is wasted on the most minute parsing of such structures.

You're right.  It's confusion.
CJ

  
MrPedantic  #280492  Sat, 14 Oct 06 01:40 AM
 Milky wrote:

A noun is never an adjective, but it we say that certain nouns can be used adjectivally (i.e. when adjectivally means "in an adjectival manner") to modify another noun. Confusion of terminology is the problem there.

Adverb

  • S: (adv) adjectivally (as an adjective; in an adjectival manner)
  • S: (adj) adjectival, adjective (of or relating to or functioning as an adjective) "adjectival syntax"; "an adjective clause"

If your definition of "adjectivally" is "as an adjective", there seems no reason why "as an adjective" shouldn't stand in the original sentence.

MrP

  
milky  #280930  Sun, 15 Oct 06 12:02 AM

 CalifJim wrote:
Confusion of terminology is the problem there.


Yes.  And the problem runs even deeper into the whole idea of word classes ("parts of speech").  In your example, the obvious question is "Does the noun (television) remain a noun when used as an adjective, or does it become an adjective, or does it become both a noun and an adjective at the same time?"

To me it remains a noun and is being used adjectively.

We often speak of words as having fixed membership in a word class (noun, adjective, verb, ...) when in fact maybe we should speak of them as taking these membership properties quite flexibly from their functional context.

Hence the word "adjectival".

----

You're right.  It's confusion.
CJ

And then there's:

 "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy"

Adjective behaving nominally.

  
milky  #280932  Sun, 15 Oct 06 12:06 AM

<If your definition of "adjectivally" is "as an adjective", there seems no reason why "as an adjective" shouldn't stand in the original sentence.>

Did you miss this bit?

<<but it we say that certain nouns can be used adjectivally (i.e. when adjectivally means "in an adjectival manner")>>

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Quick definitions (adjectival)

adjective:   of or relating to or functioning as an adjective (Example: "Adjectival syntax")

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What's your interpretation of "functioning as" above?

  
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