The sound of "S" at the beginning and in the middle of words

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CalifJim

#226653 Thu, 18 May 06 09:28 PM

I think it's softer [(the /Z/)], isn't it?

Yes. But the real difference is voicing.
English has 16 consonants which form 8 unvoiced-voiced pairs.
With the unvoiced member of the pair listed first, these are [p, b], [t, d], [k, g], [f, v], [th, TH], [s, z], [S, Z], [tS, dZ]. (/th/ = "th" in "thin"; /TH/ = 'th" in "this"; /tS/ = "ch" in "chin"; /dZ/ = 'j" in "jet").

Other than the voicing, the two members of each pair are pronounced with the tongue, jaw, lips, etc., all in the same position. In other words, there is no difference except voicing between p and b or between S and Z, etc.

Place your hand on your throat as you say these. The voiced consonants produce vibration in the throat. You can sing these. The unvoiced consonants produce no such vibrations; they cannot be sung because they are essentially composed of air! They are patterns of air escaping the mouth without any real tone provided by the vibration of the vocal folds in the throat.

"h" is an unvoiced consonant without a voiced counterpart, and all the other consonants of English are voiced (m, n, ...).

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (16,970)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Consonants

CalifJim

#226655 Thu, 18 May 06 09:35 PM

have I given myself away with something I've said? I know it must be obvious I'm a foreigner, but I didn't suppose my mistakes to be too local!

No, you have given away nothing. No, it is not obvious you are a foreigner. No, there are no mistakes which make it obvious what your native language is.
The explanation is simple. Moderators have access to data which tells us where the post comes from. I saw a notation that your post came from Spain. I am continually forgetting that non-moderators do not see this data, and I sometimes slip. My apologies if you did not want that information to be known to others on English Forums.

CJ

CalifJim

Thethenothere123

#226667 Thu, 18 May 06 10:39 PM

Colombo wrote:
By the way, have you written the sentente in brackets by chance, or have I given myself away with something I've said? I know it must be obvious I'm a foreigner, but I didn't suppose my mistakes to be too local!

In fact, you actually write quite well for a non-native speaker.

Thethenothere123

Joined on Fri, Mar 3 2006

Los Angeles, California

Full Member (187)

CalifJim

#226750 Fri, 19 May 06 03:56 AM

There are three possible pronunciations of the plural ending. (The third person present tense verb forms and the possessive forms follow the same pattern.)

[Note for the purposes of the discussion that follows that the six sibilants are /s/, /z/, /S/, /Z/, /tS/ ("ch"), and /dZ/ ("j"). An "x" is pronounced /ks/, so it, too, ends in a sibilant sound.]

1. /iz/ after a sibilant. This ending creates an extra syllable. The endings for Groups 2 and 3 (below) do not create an extra syllable.
    a) where the sibilant is /s/: misses, places, buses, bonuses, boxes
    b) where it is /z/: phases, roses, fuses, fizzes, lenses
    c) where it is /S/: wishes, dashes, marshes
    d) where it is /Z/: beiges (rare)
    e) where it is /tS/: latches, itches, arches, benches
    f) where it is /dZ/: ledges, ages, barges, ranges

2. /s/ after an unvoiced consonant other than a sibilant.
     (Only five possibilities exist in this category. /p/, /t/, /k/, /f/, and /th/)
    a) caps, capes, hops, hopes
    b) kits, kites, nights, waits, tastes, facts
    c) bakes, looks, aches, oaks
    d) staffs, safes, laughs (few)
    e) Beth's (rare)

Final /f/ is often changed to /v/ before adding the plural ending; final /th/ is often changed to /TH/ in the plural form. ("f" changes to "v"; "th" remains "th" -- only the pronunciation changes.) Examples: self, selves; moth, moths.

3. /z/ after any other sound not classifiable within the previous two headings.
cabs, Abe's, raids, lads, dogs, wives, waves, moths, truths, games, Ken's, cars, falls, bays, trees, tries

Note: Within the first category you may want to think of the "e" in the "es" ending as a pronounced "e": It is pronounced /i/. Within the second and third categories, you many want to think of the "e" in an "es" ending as a silent "e".

CJ

CalifJim

Consonants, Pronunciation, Verbs, Tenses, Plurals, Possessives, Present tenses

Colombo

#226861 Fri, 19 May 06 01:06 PM

Thanks for your new explanations! I've read all you've written, and I think I've understood most of it, although I still need to sit calmly with your text and the dictionary with audio and listen to all the examples. I know all of this will be of great help, not only for my speaking English better, but also for the questions on phonetics in English exams (which have always been nighmarish to me!) I have never been taught phonetics at my English lessons, and I had always considered it as something mysterious and boring. But it isn't! I'd almost go so far as to say it's fascinating! Wink [;)]

CalifJim wrote:
have I given myself away with something I've said? I know it must be obvious I'm a foreigner, but I didn't suppose my mistakes to be too local!

No, you have given away nothing. No, it is not obvious you are a foreigner. No, there are no mistakes which make it obvious what your native language is.
The explanation is simple. Moderators have access to data which tells us where the post comes from. I saw a notation that your post came from Spain. I am continually forgetting that non-moderators do not see this data, and I sometimes slip. My apologies if you did not want that information to be known to others on English Forums.

Don't worry! I didn't intend to make it a secret (what could be the point?); I just marvelled at your having found out from -I thought- what I had written, and I wondered what so typically-Spanish mistake I had made.

Thethenothere123 wrote:
In fact, you actually write quite well for a non-native speaker.

Do I? Thanks!! Big Smile [:D] I try to do it as well as I can, although I often find things I don't know how to say.

Colombo

Joined on Fri, May 5 2006

Spain

Junior Member (71)

Trying to learn English

Phonetics, Speaking English

CalifJim

#227093 Sat, 20 May 06 01:47 AM

I often find things I don't know how to say.

Tambien yo hallo mucho cosas qui non sabo como decimoslos.

Hee, hee, hee, hee, hee! Surprise [:O]

CalifJim

Thethenothere123

#227128 Sat, 20 May 06 04:24 AM

CalifJim wrote:

Tambien yo hallo mucho cosas qui non sabo como decimoslos.

Hee, hee, hee, hee, hee!

CJ

lol

Thethenothere123

Colombo

#227740 Mon, 22 May 06 09:09 AM

CalifJim wrote:
I often find things I don't know how to say.

Tambien yo hallo mucho cosas qui non sabo como decimoslos.

Hee, hee, hee, hee, hee!

CJ

Ho, ho, ho! Although the grammar is slightly odd, the pronunciation is so superb that I've understood exactly what you mean. After all, it's a matter of that, of making oneself understood.

Colombo

Pronunciation, Grammar

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