TEFLese

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MrPedantic  #565723  Sat, 13 Sep 08 11:41 PM

Well, I'm not sure I know what you mean by the term.

But suppose (what you call) TEFLese became a kind of lingua franca. Would it still bother you?

  
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Anonymous  #565737  Sun, 14 Sep 08 12:53 AM
<Well, I'm not sure I know what you mean by the term.>

Try reading the thread post Mr Pedantic.

<<<First, let's look at what I mean by TEFLese.>>>

<But suppose (what you call) TEFLese became a kind of lingua franca. Would it still bother you?>

Try staying with the thread discussion, Mr Pedantic.
  
PrinnySquad  #565768  Sun, 14 Sep 08 03:00 AM
Okay, I tried to read all the posts but it's getting harder and harder to follow. Dictionary's definition doesn't always help. And I googled. So forgive my ignorance, could someone please tell me what exactly TEFLese is in a simplified definition? From my vague understanding of the definitions and your posts, I am guessing it has something to do with patterned English sentences.

Now if that the case, I wouldn't be bothered so much. As a leaner myself, I found it helpful to repeat some certain patterns until I get the hang of them. Is that how we all learned our mother tongue? Besides,  the joys of just remembering patterns will wear off pretty fast, as any learner with his own background under circumstances will always try to create something different. Is it because of his mother-tongue, because of his previous knowledge of English, but whatever it is, it will always strays from the patterned English sentences (a.k.a TEFLese in my knowledge), which are written by most teachers or even native speakers.
  
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Kooyeen  #566033  Sun, 14 Sep 08 09:55 PM

PrinnySquad
Dictionary's definition doesn't always help. And I googled. So forgive my ignorance, could someone please tell me what exactly TEFLese is in a simplified definition?

Hi,
TEFLese (TEFL = Teaching English as a Foreign Language) is a term we kind of made up to talk about the kind of English that is taught to foreign learners, which often seems to be rather "artificial" or "unidiomatic" compared to the real language native speakers use everyday. It's difficult to define anyway, since I would associate that term more with "bad approach to teaching and learning" than a real kind of English.
  
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MrPedantic  #566058  Sun, 14 Sep 08 11:03 PM

Anonymous
Try reading the thread post Mr Pedantic.

I have, old thing. Here it is:

“‘TEFL-ese’—a language designed to illustrate the workings of a simplified grammatical system and bearing a beguiling but ultimately quite false similarity to real English”.

It's simply a description in search of examples; a series of empty variables.

Anonymous
Try staying with the thread discussion, Mr Pedantic.

I suspect that the question was a little awkward. If what you call TEFLese has already become a kind of lingua franca – which may well be the case, if it's as widespread as you suggest –  then isn't it "prescriptive" to decry it?

MrP

  
Anonymous  #566063  Sun, 14 Sep 08 11:14 PM
Here, for all, is fine example of the workings of TEFLese:

There are, then, at least two kinds of language production as part of the learning process in the classroom. At times people produce language in order to communicate.

At other times they produce language simply in order to practise correct forms, or to demonstrate that they can produce a correct form. This may seem to be a

straightforward distinction, but at times it can cause confusion in the classroom.

Here is an example from some actual classroom data (J R Willis 1981). The teacher has worked very hard to set up a situation in which students are to practise a

number of verbs followed by the gerund form -ing. She tells one student:

Antonio, ask Socoop if he likes being a father.

Antonio says:

Socoop, do you like being a father?

Socoop replies:

Yes, I erm . . . I am father of four children.

By standards operating outside the classroom this is a perfectly reasonable reply. It is also, as it happens, an acceptable sentence of English. The teacher, however, is not

satisfied with this reply. She says:

Yes, all right, listen to the question though.

Socoop listens to the question and then tries a series of replies without real success until the teacher resolves the issue by answering for him:

Yes, I do. I like being a father.

The learners do not challenge the truth of the teacher's utterance, even though the teacher is a woman, because they know it is not a real statement intended to

communicate something about the teacher's attitude to parenthood. It is simply the teacher correcting Socoop and giving him a model of the target pattern. Socoop's

mistake, of course, was to behave as if the question he was asked was a real question, and as if he really was expected to explain to the class his feelings about fatherhood.

--

From The Lexical Syllabus, By D Willis. Chpter 1.

  
MrPedantic  #566067  Sun, 14 Sep 08 11:24 PM
Anonymous
Yes, I erm . . . I am father of four children.

By standards operating outside the classroom this is a perfectly reasonable reply. It is also, as it happens, an acceptable sentence of English.

In what respect, Anon, is "I am father of four children" an "acceptable sentence"?

Apart from the missing article, it sounds quite artificial (cf. "I have four children") – perhaps what you would call TEFLese in another context.

On the other hand, "I like being a father" sounds fairly natural.

MrP

  
Anonymous  #566068  Sun, 14 Sep 08 11:29 PM
I suspect that the question was a little awkward. If what you call TEFLese has already become a kind of lingua franca – which may well be the case, if it's as widespread as you suggest –  then isn't it "prescriptive" to decry it?

If it were created by teachers AND students and or students were told that it was "a language designed to illustrate the workings of a simplified grammatical system and bearing a beguiling but ultimately quite false similarity to real English” I might indeed have no call to decry it. As that is not the case...

  
Anonymous  #566069  Sun, 14 Sep 08 11:31 PM
I suspect that the question was a little awkward. If what you call TEFLese has already become a kind of lingua franca – which may well be the case, if it's as widespread as you suggest –  then isn't it "prescriptive" to decry it?

If it were created by teachers AND students and or students were told that it was "a language designed to illustrate the workings of a simplified grammatical system and bearing a beguiling but ultimately quite false similarity to real English” I might indeed have no call to decry it. As that is not the case...


Mr Pedantic, would you say that most adult students join ESL/EFL classes with the intention of learning "a language designed to illustrate the workings of a simplified grammatical system and bearing a beguiling but ultimately quite false similarity to real English” or do those student pay to/want to learn real English?
  
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