Verb_aTIM  +  629897 Sun, 04 Jan 09 06:37 AM Hi Mr. Micawber. When you say that " the main verb 'have been started' is a present form",  You are Right and I am Wrong, because it is indeed a present form. But, when you say:     "This is also the first time that such plans have been designed even before a new year starts", and you say it is the "speaker's choice", I must say you're totally wrong, "Cause there's no way in the world (of Logic) that two sentences have their verbs operating in real time, at the same time! And it is easily tested. Just putting the fragment "even a new year starts" in the beginning of the statement: " Even before a new year starts, ...such plans have been designed."            Which is absolutelly inappropiated.  Since you say "even before", we are no longer speaking in real time. Honestly, TIM.   . Verb_aTIM Joined on Mon, Oct 27 2008 New Member 29 Pattern Seekers welcome. Sentences, Speaking, Chat, Friendships

	Mister Micawber  +  629899 Sun, 04 Jan 09 06:44 AM . Cause there's no way in the world (of Logic) that two sentences have their verbs operating in real time, at the same time!” 'Honestly' isn't enough, Tim.  Please provide a reference for this statement. . Mister Micawber Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004 Yokohama Veteran Member 30,789 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'