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Taka

#272510 Tue, 26 Sep 06 02:16 PM

Clive wrote:
'He should have arrived in Montreal 500 years ago.'

If you say this, I take the meaning that he didn't. My point is that you can have ideas about today or last week in terms of predictions/obligations, but it's pretty hard to have such ideas about 500 years ago. Or thousands of years ago, when many religions were created.

Hmm...But we can use 'must have arrived' or 'may have arrived', no matter how long ago, right?

Why do you think it is so? (Please don't say 'That's the way it is.' Smile [:)]

)

Taka

Joined on Tue, Sep 7 2004

Japan

Senior Member (2,351)

Schetin

#272565 Tue, 26 Sep 06 04:42 PM

No matter how long ago, 'must/may/should/will have arrived' will only differ in the degree of certainty/anticipation.

Regards,

Slava

Schetin

Joined on Mon, Sep 4 2006

Moscow, Russia

Full Member (243)

Regards

Taka

#272595 Tue, 26 Sep 06 05:22 PM

Schetin wrote:
No matter how long ago, 'must/may/should/will have arrived' will only differ in the degree of certainty.

Yes, I thought that way. But Clive seems to have a different opinion...

Taka

Schetin

#272642 Tue, 26 Sep 06 06:25 PM

Schetin wrote:

No matter how long ago, 'must/may/should/will have arrived' will only differ in the degree of certainty/anticipation.

...but they have a lesser degree of certainty than the statement 'He has arrived' because they express an attitude, not what, actually, is a fact.

Schetin

Clive

#272718 Tue, 26 Sep 06 10:02 PM

Hi,

Let me ask you this.

Mary should have taken an aspirin yesterday.

Do you interpret this to mean she took one or she didn't take one?

Best wishes, Clive

Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004

Canada

Veteran Member (22,568)

El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

Schetin

#272725 Tue, 26 Sep 06 10:20 PM

Hi Clive,

Me, I'd say she didn't. But she should.

Schetin

Clive

#272735 Tue, 26 Sep 06 10:50 PM

Hi,

Yes. That's also how I interpret Men should have created religions . . .

What do you think about this, Taka?

Clive

Taka

#273196 Wed, 27 Sep 06 06:42 PM

Isn't it its context that decides the meaning?

Most of my books define 'should have ...ed' as:

(1) regret toward something undone, unfinished.

eg. I should have asked him first.

(2) present presumption of a past event.

eg.He should have arrived in Montreal last week.

But none of my books mention your 'presumption-of-not-so-long-time-ago' theory, Clive...

Taka

Schetin

#273246 Wed, 27 Sep 06 09:44 PM

Taka wrote:

...(2) present presumption of a past event.

eg.He should have arrived in Montreal last week.

But none of my books mention your 'presumption-of-not-so-long-time-ago' theory...

I guess you agree that 'must have arrived' can be understood as the aforementioned presumption, don't you? You can consider 'should' as a rarer and somewhat less certain alternative of 'must'.

... as in 'I should think we'll be able to organize something'; or 'That shouldn't be a problem'.

Regards,

Slava

Schetin

Regards

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