Kilimanjaro  +  249939 Fri, 28 Jul 06 07:47 PM Hi, The following is from  News Week's 1997 edition. The time sequence seems quite confusing to me. Is this a normal way of wording of events in this tense sequence or is it peculiar to Journalistic Style? How could we explain the sentence in other words? "When 3M recently reported that it invests more than $100 million a year in environmentally related research and development, the real news was that from 1973 to 1995, its 4.400 Pollution Prevention Pays (3P) projects have saved the company close to $1billion." Kilimanjaro Joined on Sat, Dec 3 2005 İzmir Full Member 273 Tenses

	Ant_222  +  249946 Fri, 28 Jul 06 08:39 PM «...3M recently reported that it invests... Consider the following: 1. I said that I am a student. 2. I said that I was a student. The first sentence expresses that I am still a student, as I was at the moment I said it. From the second sentence it follows only that I was a student when I said that. Now it can be either true or not. This is where Sequence of Tenses works. As to the second problem «...news was that... have saved...», I am not sure. I am confused by the comma after «1995». What is it for? I wouldn't say «from 1993 to 1996 I have read thirty five books», I'd use Past Simple instead. Well, let's see what the experts will say... Ant_222 Joined on Sun, May 21 2006 Podolsk, Russia Contributing Member 1,717 Tenses, Commas, Past Simple

	CalifJim  +  250011 Fri, 28 Jul 06 11:54 PM Only have saved is incorrect.  From the viewpoint of 1997, it should have been: The real news was that from 1973 to 1995 its ... projects (had) saved the company ... Present perfect is not used when a specific time (or time period) in the past is mentioned (from 1973 to 1995). Expressions like recently reported, just reported, just said, just told, ... are likely to be followed by a present tense, particularly if what is reported or said is still happening.  This is correct.  (The use of the past there is also correct, of course.) CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,395 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Tenses, Present Tenses, Present Perfect

	Ant_222  +  250017 Sat, 29 Jul 06 12:21 AM So Kilimanjaro has found a grammar mistake in News Week!? And what about the punctuation. Is it ok? Ant_222 Grammar, Tenses, Punctuation

	CalifJim  +  250023 Sat, 29 Jul 06 01:09 AM Apparently the editors of Newsweek believed the punctuation and grammar were correct. I would have punctuated as shown above. CJ CalifJim Grammar, Tenses, Punctuation

	Ant_222  +  250131 Sat, 29 Jul 06 09:53 AM Yeah, I don't get your point, Jim. Above you wrote: «Only _have saved_ is incorrect. From the viewpoint of 1997...» Then, in the same post: «...particularly if what is reported or said is still happening. This is correct.» I am sure it stopped happening in the end of 1995... And later: «Apparently the editors of Newsweek believed the punctuation and grammar were correct.» So, please, could you write again whether it is correct or not (the use the Present Perfect) and why? Ant_222 Grammar, Tenses, Punctuation, Present Perfect

	Kilimanjaro  +  250161 Sat, 29 Jul 06 11:25 AM I understand the first three tense constructions but  not the last one "have saved the company". Actually, what motivated me to post the message here is the last part as I could hardly make a connection between the first part and the last part of the paragraph. The date of the issue is 1997 but the date in the paragraph when the action took place is, 1993-1995, which is "Past" Kilimanjaro Dates, Constructions, Tenses, Paragraphs

	CalifJim  +  250316 Sat, 29 Jul 06 07:28 PM So, please, could you write again whether it is correct or not (the use the Present Perfect) and why? One of two issues discussed above was this: Of the four portions highlighted in red, only the last one (have saved) is not correct. The use of the present perfect tense there is incorrect because a past period of time is mentioned in the same sentence.  Sentences like *From last September to last December, the company has saved $100,000. *Last year I have seen a lot of movies.  *Five years ago they have built a cabin in the woods. are not correct because the time period implied by the present perfect includes the present.  An adverb which places the action exclusively in the past would contradict the meaning of the present perfect tense, so the combination is wrong. I was implying that the editors of Newsweek may have looked this over somewhat hastily and missed the mistake. _________ The other issue of the two was that of having a reporting verb in the past and what is reported in the present.  Such a combination is correct.  This issue has nothing to do with present perfect tense. CJ CalifJim Verbs, Tenses, Adverbs, Present Perfect