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Tense is used for more than just time.

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Roro  #110242  Sat, 18 Jun 05 11:10 AM
... but I don't know which one applies to your first example,

1. Fortuneteller: I see a great future in front of you. You pass your exam, go to university and do well. Then, you marry into money and become businesswoman of the year before 2012.


I have to say, we should apply 1. I'm not sure.
  
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milky  #110249  Sat, 18 Jun 05 11:40 AM
This is the deictic expression that carries us (distal action) first into the future:

I see a great future in front of you.

Then, IMO, this use of the present tense carries us back again to bring the future (distal) to the present (proximal) and make it immediate and inevitable.
  
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Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".
Roro  #110252  Sat, 18 Jun 05 11:51 AM
!!
Interesting!
If you are right, then there's a close similarity with the usage of , isn't it?
  
milky  #110311  Sat, 18 Jun 05 03:05 PM
Could be.
  
Roro  #110323  Sat, 18 Jun 05 03:24 PM
Proposition:

I say that the speaker has chosen the present simple in the first text because she/he wants to bring the predicted events (psychologically) closer (give them immediacy) and to make them appear more possible/factual. In the second text, the choice of "will" give less immediacy/factuality and the possibility is weaker.

What do you think?

I'm beginning to be inclined to understand at least what you insist. Simple present form has such a effect, indeed (including the historical present / scenarios usages).

But in the second text, works as indicator of future tense, I think.
  
milky  #110365  Sat, 18 Jun 05 07:17 PM
works as indicator of future tense, I think. >

And a kind of "distancer".
  
Roro  #110381  Sat, 18 Jun 05 09:01 PM
milky  #110572  Sun, 19 Jun 05 12:30 PM
. On the time axis. (I'm still inclined to say ... not psychological, in this case.) >>

By "psychological" I meant that it isn't physically present, but is brought into the mentally present - much the same as in the historic present. The commentary present -"Beckham runs down the wing. He shoots. Yes.---!! It's a goal!" - is physically present at the moment of speaking, but the predictive present is on mentally present.

  
Roro  #110607  Sun, 19 Jun 05 01:34 PM
Hi,
I think I can understand you, in principle at least, because in Japanese the future tense is not morphologically grammaticalised yet (in passing I'm Japanese). We use when in need the form for , with future temporal adverbials.

From a diachronic perspective, however, some verbal forms came to bring the grammaticalized meaning, in considerable numbers of languages. I think so .. or I've been taking such a standpoint for granted (because this view is more convenient, that's all!).

It happened relatively recently, during 17~18cc.?? I'm not sure now, I have to check it out.

Maybe our difference is only in terminology? .. no?
  
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