The tenseless modals verbs of English

He finally gave in to his daughter's incessant pleas and allowed that she [might / *may] see her scruffy, good-for-nothing boyfriend occasionally. Being exhausted after an especially difficult phase of the work, they approached the supervisor concerning whether they [might / *may] take a longer break than usual.

There you go, JT. How would 'may' work here?

MrP

1. He finally gave in to his daughter's incessant pleas and allowed that she [might / *may] see her scruffy, good-for-nothing boyfriend occasionally.

2. Being exhausted after an especially difficult phase of the work, they approached the supervisor concerning whether they [might / *may] take a longer break than usual.

There you go, JT. How would 'may' work here?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Don't you ever sleep, Mr P?

Why would you think that 'may' HAS to work here, Mr P? It's precisely the lack of critical thinking applied here that would even lead you to ask this. Ponder it a bit. I'm sure that you can come up with something if you were to apply your incisive analytical skills.

Here's something that may [stronger than might] help you.

Situation: The boss and some workers want to go over a report but the report is not in the office. One of the team has gone home. Marnie suggests the following. Which ones [from 1-4]would work and which wouldn't?

1. Joe might have it.

2. Joe may have it.

3. Joe can have it.

4. Joe could have it.

1. 2003 - GWB: The Iraqis are going to hold elections in Iraq in January 2005. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr P: In #1, GWB situates the intention in the present. JTT: No it doesn't Mr P. GWB's speech clearly situates the intention in the future, "January 2005" to be exact. You have mistaken the time of speaking and the effect of that speech.

If the 'intention' is in the future – January 2005 – how come GWB knows about that intention in 2003?

When we say 'I am going to do XYZ', we mean: 'at this moment (now) I intend to do XYZ (then)'. 'NOw' is when the 'intention' starts. It continues till the 'thing intended' is completed.

Thus GWB means: 'the Iraqis now (in 2003) intend to hold elections in 2005'.

You've mistaken the purpose for the goal.

MrP

From JTT's earlier post on this subject:

Here are four of the modals that express levels of certainty, in descending order, ie. from highest to lowest certainty. must should may might

1. If these simply express separate levels of certainty, as stated here, it should be possible to replace 'might' with 'may' in CJ's two sentences. However, this doesn't seem to be the case.

2. Further to the earlier comment about Collins Cobuild dictionary: while it does list 'might' and 'may' and many of their uses separately, it notes that 'might is often used as the past tense of may; especially in subordinate clauses'. (It then refers the student to 'may'.)

MrP

CJ, I think you're right.

JTT has confused the 'hypothetical' uses of 'might' (past subjunctive) with the 'reported speech' use of 'might' (past indicative).

It shouldn't surprise us (thought it may surprise JT) that a past subjunctive can relate to the future – cf:

'If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well
It were done quickly.'

No doubt the fact that a reported past subjunctive takes the same form as a reported past indicative has added to JT's confusion:

1. 'Grandpa may die!' => 'He said that Grandpa might die'.
2. 'Grandpa might die...' => 'He said that Grandpa might die'.

(Perhaps in speech we would distinguish by saying: 'he (only) said that Grandpa might die' for the latter.)

MrP