Tenses

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Kooyeen

#434418 Wed, 24 Oct 07 11:49 PM

Hi Amy,
thank you so much for all your comments!

...examples in which the past perfect continuous is always strongly connected to the present moment. It seems to me that you must have misunderstood your sources on that account.
Sorry, that was a mistake. I meant past moment... so forget that part. Smile [:)]

I understand the comments on some examples... yes, you are right. I'm afraid you are even more imaginative than me, lol.

So I understand, thank you. But there's a little thing... hmmm...

It has been raining. --> This sentence does not tell us whether or not the rainfall has now stopped. You need more context to know that for sure. However without any further context I would understand that sentence to mean "It rained while I was inside, but judging by the fact that everything is still dripping, it must have stopped raining only a few minutes ago."

It has been raining for hours. --> Without any further context, I would understand that it is still raining now.

Those two are virtually the same (except "for hours"). The only difference is that the context that comes to our mind is different. So I understand the action might or might not have come to an end, but... look at this:

I've been searching for a good explanation.
...I'm still searching for a good explanation. You don't say that after you've given up, do you? Sure, why not? I would say "I searched" in that case. If someone has just now finally given me the good explanation that I had been trying for years to find, I would have no problem whatsoever saying "I've been searching for a good explanation (and thanks to you, now I finally have it)."

Those kinds of examples are the ones I've always had trouble with... I've been trying to understand the present perfect continuous in those cases for more than 2 years, I posted a lot, and still have trouble. I remember asking about this in several thread, let's see if I can find them...

Kooyeen

Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005

Italy

Senior Member (4,073)

If you don't have a sense of humor already, it's about time you buy one.

Kooyeen

#434420 Wed, 24 Oct 07 11:54 PM

I found one. No one answered, maybe that's why I never understood, LOL.

[link]

I asked:

I have been searching the Net for two hours, but I haven't found the drivers you asked me, sorry dude.
I have been searching the Net for two hours, but I didn't find the drivers you asked me, sorry dude.

And GG said:

It was the "I have been searching" that was the problem with using "didn't." With "have been searching," it says that the search is still going on.

Smile [:)]

Kooyeen

Goodman

#434433 Thu, 25 Oct 07 12:24 AM

Thank you Amy! I was going to rebut the point that Kooyeen made. You have saved me from having to do that. Just another minor point I like to make….

In reference to the IBM sentence, whether he is still working for IBM is irrelevant. However, the tense offers an impression that he is no long working there. Otherwise, it would have been expressed in Present Perfect; wouldn’t it? When a sentence is expressed in p.p. continuous, by intent its focus or accent is on the duration of time in which an act or process took place relative to another event.

Example:

I had met and dated your aunt Julie who is your mother’s younger sister before I met and married your mom –said a father to his daughter.

The normal impression toward this sentence is probably that this dating relationship had been terminated. If this is logic acceptable to the readers, then you may have to agree that this reasoning is also applicable to the IBM’s example.

<<He had been working IBM for many years before he got together with a few colleagues to form their own company>>>

The bottom line is, past perfect, past perfect continuous or even present perfect for that matter, the context must be constructed in such a way that the tense and the logic can coexist without disagreement.

Goodman

Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005

Calif. USA

Senior Member (3,247)

The name says it all!

Tenses, Past Perfect, Present Perfect, Accents

Yankee

#434438 Thu, 25 Oct 07 12:33 AM

And GG said:

It was the "I have been searching" that was the problem with using "didn't." With "have been searching," it says that the search is still going on.

Hi Kooyeen

Actually, GG's input was similar to my "It has been raining for hours" example. When you add something such as "for three hours" or "since yesterday" to a present perfect continuous sentence, I'd say people would usually assume that the activity is still on-going and that we have simply placed an artificial stop on time itself in order to measure "how long up to now" or "how long so far" the activity has been taking place.

Yankee

Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006

Connecticut, USA

Senior Member (4,320)

Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain

Present Perfect

tommyensr

#434464 Thu, 25 Oct 07 02:18 AM

eventually, the past perfect / past perfect con. ,

they imply the situation which has completely finished or not?

back to the first answer? or this tense will not have a final conclusion.

Thank you very much, teachers

tommyensr

Joined on Mon, Dec 27 2004

thailand

Full Member (121)

Tenses, Past Perfect

Hoa Thai

#434523 Thu, 25 Oct 07 05:32 AM

Dear all,

Here is my viewpoint:

1. Ann asked Monica, "Why did you yell at John?" - "Because I found out that he'd revealed our secret," replied Monica.
    My interpretation: For one unspecific time or a duration of time in the past (before Monica found out), John revealed their secret.

2. Ann asked Monica, "Why did you want to divorce Tony?" - "Because he had been cheating," replied Monica.
    My interpretation: Tony had cheated (on) his wife for an extended duration of time in the past (could be off-and-on).

3. On the phone at 9:00AM, Ann asks Monica, "how is the weather there?" - "I love it. It's given back my health," replies Monica.
    My interpretation: Monica loves the long-lasting weather that helps her to fully recover from her illness.

4. On the phone at 9:00AM, Ann asks Monica, "how is the weather there?" - "I love it. It's been giving back my health," replies Monica.
    My first interpretation: Monica is getting better, but still not quite well.
    My second interpretation: Monica is fully recovered, recently.

If I needs a clarification from her, I might ask, "Are you 100% all right?"

5. On the phone at 9:00AM, Ann asks Monica, "how is the weather there?" - "It's been raining like crazy," replies Monica.
    My first interpretation: The long-lasting rain is still pouring. Monica stresses her displeasure not only with the rain but also with the length of time the rain pours.
    My second interpretation: The long-lasting rain recently stops pouring. Monica stresses her displeasure not only with the rain but also with the length of time the rain pours.

If I needs a clarification from her, I might ask,"Is it still pouring?"

6. On the phone at 9:00AM, Ann asks Monica, "how is the weather there?" - "It's raining like crazy," replies Monica.
    My interpretation: The rain is pouring. Monica stresses her displeasure only with the rain. The rain could have started hours or just 10 minutes ago, but she doesn't pay attention to that fact except that she cannot go out.

Thus, the use of various tenses could depend on whether one likes to stress the action alone or the action plus the context of the object clause, right?

Thanks,
Hoa Thai

Hoa Thai

Joined on Mon, Oct 15 2007

Vietnam

Contributing Member (1,100)

Best Regards - Hoa Thai

Tenses, Clauses

Kooyeen

#434710 Thu, 25 Oct 07 03:26 PM

Thank you so much Amy!

I don't feel like writing long posts again, I don't want to stress you out. Wink [;)]

I'll just say that...

Reading your posts, I realized that the way I'm using those tenses must be ok... it's just that we tend to imagine different contexts, so it seems we disagree, but in reality we don't. Perfect continuous tenses are too difficult to discuss in general, I think we always need a specific example.
Well... I already have a specific example! But I'm going to open a new thread, and I hope it'll be a short one.

And thanks again. Smile [:)]

Kooyeen

Tenses

tommyensr

#434731 Thu, 25 Oct 07 04:34 PM

yeah, i agree with you

anyway, i have learned a lot in this post.

it's really great and thank you very much teachers

tommyensr

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