K. Edgcombe    829310 Wed, 04 Feb 04 08:09 PM "On 03 Feb 2004, Bob Cunningham wrote" "In a series of statements about Teresa née Heinz on ... interpret the statement any other way than that Teresa was." "My immediate reaction was that of your lady friend since the statement was about Teresa, I'd assume that's whose birthplace they were talking about. But it's obviously a bad construction." I've just been listening to a couple of the novels of Jane Austen, read on cassette tape. It is much slower than my normal reading pace, and I find that I become very aware of sentence construction. I have been surprised how often Miss Austen uses the construction above; it may, as you say, be a bad construction but it has an honourable history. In those days I assume it was not liable to misinterpretation, since she might fairly be described as a careful writer. Katy K. Edgcombe Constructions, Sentences, Relationships, Friendships, Speaking, Chat, Friends

	Javi    829408 Wed, 04 Feb 04 10:04 PM In "On 03 Feb 2004, Bob Cunningham wrote" "In a series of statements about Teresa née Heinz on ... interpret the statement any other way than that Teresa was." "My immediate reaction was that of your lady friend since the statement was about Teresa, I'd assume that's whose birthplace they were talking about. But it's obviously a bad construction." My first reaction was that of Harvey, but I am not a native speaker. To me, it sounds as a bad calque from some language, probably French, German or Portuguese, whose participles have different forms for different genders, and also a similar construction to that of Latin called "absolute participle" or "ablativus absolutus"; in those languages there is no ambiguity, as in Spanish: "NacidA en Mozambique, su padre fue un médico portugués." Maybe the speaker was reading a translation. Saludos cordiales Javi The right of the people to keep and arm bears shall not be infringed. Javi Genders, Translation, Constructions, Relationships, Friendships, Speaking, Chat, Friends, Languages

	Steve Hayes    829764 Thu, 05 Feb 04 03:06 AM ""Prime Minister, Mr Edward Heath's father, died yesterday aged .."" "If it's a well know fact who is who, then readers understand who died. I believe the editor was more concerned to begin the sentence with "Prime Minister"." My theory is that the writer was trying to imitate Timespeak, but added an extra comma. Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Steve Hayes Commas, Sentences, Punctuation

	Bob Cunningham    830226 Thu, 05 Feb 04 01:25 PM "On 03 Feb 2004, Bob Cunningham wrote" (Note that "née" is an error here, as caught by Aaron Dinkin. Heinz was not her maiden name, but a previous married name.) "My immediate reaction was that of your lady friend ... they were talking about. But it's obviously a bad construction." Yes, "who was born in Mozambique" is not just a dangling antecedent; it's an antecedent that falsely seems to have a back reference in "her father". A parallel example is "Flying over the jungle, a family of gorillas was seen". (What's a better name than "back reference" for the thing an antecedent is the antecedent of? "Anaphora" seems close, but not close enough. "Complement"?) "My first reaction was that of Harvey, but I am not a native speaker. To me, it sounds as a ... ambiguity, as in Spanish: "NacidA en Mozambique, su padre fue un médico portugués." Maybe the speaker was reading a translation." That's an intriguing possibility, but it doesn't seem to hold here. The remark was read by one of the regulars on the "60 Minutes" TV show. The text was written by whoever on the staff writes the things the people say. There's no reason to think it could have been a translation. Bob Cunningham Marriage, Translation, Constructions, Mistakes, Business, Relationships, Friendships, Speaking, Chat, References, Career, Friends, Languages

	Ben Zimmer    832570 Sat, 07 Feb 04 06:38 PM "In a series of statements about Teresa née Heinz" "Nee Ferreira, actually. Heinz was her first husband's surname." Née Simões-Ferreira, if you want to get technical about it. She's the daughter of José Simões-Ferreira and Irene Thierstein, and her full name is Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões-Ferreira Heinz Kerry. Ben Zimmer Marriage, Relationships

	Robert Lieblich    832583 Sat, 07 Feb 04 07:19 PM "Nee Ferreira, actually. Heinz was her first husband's surname." "Née Simões-Ferreira, if you want to get technical about it. She's the daughter of José Simões-Ferreira and Irene Thierstein, and her full name is Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões-Ferreira Heinz Kerry." Doesn't sound all that Irish to me. Bob Lieblich Not all that Czech, either Robert Lieblich Marriage, Countries, Great Britain, Relationships, Ireland, Languages

	Bob Cunningham    832713 Sat, 07 Feb 04 11:48 PM "Née Simões-Ferreira, if you want to get technical about it. ... her full name is Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões-Ferreira Heinz Kerry." "Doesn't sound all that Irish to me." Seems like "Ferreira" might rhyme with "de Valera". Bob Cunningham Countries, Great Britain, Ireland

	John Dean    832798 Sun, 08 Feb 04 01:11 AM "Nee Ferreira, actually. Heinz was her first husband's surname." "Née Simões-Ferreira, if you want to get technical about it. She's the daughter of José Simões-Ferreira and Irene Thierstein, and her full name is Maria Teresa Thierstein Simões-Ferreira Heinz Kerry." You'd struggle to fit that on a soup tin. John Dean Oxford John Dean Marriage, Relationships

	Josenildo Marques    832983 Sun, 08 Feb 04 02:18 PM "Seems like "Ferreira" might rhyme with "de Valera"." No, they don't rhyme, but their sounds are very similar. Josenildo Marques