JKBelieve  +  77524 Tue, 01 Mar 05 12:06 PM I am really confused about this as well. Please give me a detailed description. JKBelieve Joined on Thu, Nov 25 2004 Full Member 280 Reality is what we believe it is - JK Difference Between, Whom

	Casi  +  77528 Tue, 01 Mar 05 12:27 PM Use who as the subject, and use whom as the object. Here's a trick, the subject generally comes before the verb, and the object comes after the verb: Pat gave Max a book. Who gave whom . . . . Prepositions also have objects: Pat gave the book to Max. Pat gave the book to whom? With the passive, the subject and the object switch positions, so the object comes before the verb: Max was given a book. *Whom was given a book? (edited; thanks Mr P.) Who was given the book? "Who" comes before the verb. "Whom" comes before a preposition or after the verb: To whom as the book given? The book was given to whom? Who gave whom the book? Speakers often shorten "whom" to "who": Pat gave Max a book. Who gave who . . . . Max was given a book. Who was given a book? Pat gave the book to Max. Who gave the book to who? If in doubt, look for the verb. It will guide you: Active: who VERB whom Passive: whom VERB When there's a preposition: PREPOSITION whom If it's a question, put it back into a statement: Question: Who/Whom did you speak with? Statement: I spoke with whom? ('with' is a preposition) Casi Joined on Sat, Sep 25 2004 Regular Member 547 Verbs, Difference Between, Prepositions, Whom

	just the truth  +  77534 Tue, 01 Mar 05 12:56 PM Casi: With the passive, the subject and the object switch positions, so the object comes before the verb: Max was given a book. Whom was given a book? Speakers often shorten "whom" to "who": I'm confused by something you've said here, Casi. Are you saying that "Max" is the object in the sentence, "Max was given a book." ? just the truth Joined on Mon, Dec 27 2004 Regular Member 849 Verbs, Difference Between, Whom

	Casi  +  77541 Tue, 01 Mar 05 01:10 PM JTT wrote: I'm confused by something you've said here, Casi. Are you saying that "Max" is the object in the sentence, "Max was given a book." ? Yes. That's correct, JTT. "Max" has a dual function: It's the structural subject but it's also the semantic object (indirect kind) of the verb. Does that help ease your confusion? Max (IO) was given the book (DO). IO = indirect object DO = direct object Casi Verbs, Difference Between, Whom, Direct Objects, Indirect Objects

	MrPedantic  +  77580 Tue, 01 Mar 05 04:16 PM Hello Casi I too am puzzled. In this example, for instance, 'who' is the subject, and 'book' is the object: 1. 'Who was given the book?' While here, 'Max' is the subject, and 'book' is again the object: 2. 'Max was given the book.' While here: 3. *'Whom was given the book?' the 'whom' is ungrammatical, and should be changed to 'who' ('book' is still the object). Otherwise the sentence has no subject. Cf: 4. *'Him was given the book.' It's true that the subject of the verb is not the agent of the verb, in #1 and #2. But the subject form surely still applies. Lighten our darkness... MrP MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,679 ...opella forensis / adducit febris... Verbs, Difference Between, Whom

	paco2004  +  77701 Wed, 02 Mar 05 04:16 AM Hello Casi I think we would say; Who/Whom was the book given to? but we can't say; (*) Who/Whom was given the book? paco paco2004 Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004 Senior Member 4,095 In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English. Difference Between, Whom

	paco2004  +  77709 Wed, 02 Mar 05 04:53 AM Hello JKB We have already talked a lot on something related to this issue. If you are interested in our discussion, please visit;post 67735 paco. paco2004 Difference Between, Whom

	MrPedantic  +  77732 Wed, 02 Mar 05 07:57 AM Thanks, Paco, I'd forgotten about that thread! Since we're discussing passive constructions ('who was given the book?') rather than active constructions ('to whom did you give the book?'), it might be easier to take an example whose 'active version' doesn't contain an indirect object: 1. Who was killed? – subject pronoun 'who' in passive construction. 2. Whom did you kill? – object pronoun 'whom' in active construction. It's also very common to use 'who' instead of 'whom' in sentences like #2: 3. Who did you kill? – object pronoun 'who' in active construction. MrP MrPedantic Difference Between, Constructions, Nouns, Pronouns, Whom, Direct Objects, Indirect Objects

	just the truth  +  77733 Wed, 02 Mar 05 07:59 AM but we can't say; (*) Who/Whom was given the book? "Who was given the book?" is fine, Paco. just the truth Difference Between, Whom