JRU714  [More info] I have a friend who insists that he is using the expression, "to no avail" properly when he says (quite frequently), "That ticked me off to no avail", after he gets upset by something.  I tried to explain to him that this is an improper use of the expression, and that a proper use would be, "I studied for the exam to no avail" (after receiving a failing grade).  Another example I used was, "I dieted to no avail" (after weighing myself and discovering that despite my dieting, I had not lost any weight).  Anyway, I know that I am correct in my examples but could the expression also be used in the context that my friend is trying to use it in?  Thanks in advance! JRU714 Joined on Tue, Sep 13 2005 New Member 01

	+1 Mister Micawber  [More info] Hello, JRU-- and welcome to English Forums. Well, I cannot really judge what your friend intends-- that made me angry, but I won't let it really upset me and cause me to do something I'll regret?  That would be a reasonably accurate use of the phrase.  To no avail means with no advantage or to no purpose, uselessly, without effect, etc.  If that is not what he means, then he is misusing the phrase. Mister Micawber Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004 Yokohama Veteran Member 36,916 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

	+1 Mister Micawber  [More info] To no end is not natural; no end would work. Mister Micawber

	+1 Yankee  [More info] Hi Anon Scroll down to the expression "no end" here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=no+end&r=66 I think the point was that "no end" would sound natural in the sentence (i.e. the point was not that it means the same thing as "to no avail"). "That ticked me off no end" would mean "That made me very angry." Yankee Joined on Sat, Apr 15 2006 Connecticut, USA Veteran Member 6,910 Amy "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus." - Mark Twain

	+1 Clive  [More info] Hi, No-one would actually say "That ticked me off to no purposeful end". It sounds ludicrous. Best wishes, Clive Clive Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004 Canada Veteran Member 34,881 El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

	+1 khoff  [More info] The original question in the thread was asked three years ago!  I suspect that further discussion will be to no avail. khoff Joined on Sun, Mar 6 2005 Senior Member 3,664 Native speaker of American English (but not a grammar expert)