The night before

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Taka

#253168 Sun, 06 Aug 06 09:10 PM

Grammar Geek wrote:

We saw the play the night before the lead actress left for another role.
We saw the play the night before they closed it.
I cried for two hours the night before he left for California.

I've seen those kinds as well, but they are a bit different from the type I'm asking now. I mean, although your example have the same 'noun+[the night, etc...] + S+V' , they seems to be a bit different: they are all adverbial, modifying the verbs in front:

We saw ... the night before the lead actress left for another role.

We saw ... the night before they closed it.

I cried for two hours the night before he left for California.

My question is, is it as often for such construction to modify the noun in front, as in, say, 'The conference the night before the war broke out was not really successful'?

Taka

Joined on Tue, Sep 7 2004

Japan

Senior Member (2,351)

Grammar, Verbs, Constructions, Nouns

Grammar Geek

#253175 Sun, 06 Aug 06 09:30 PM

Hmm. I don't know how common it is. Basically, you mean a situation in which the only way you can describe WHICH noun you mean is to say WHEN that noun existed?

A: Do you have my notes from the parent-teacher meeting?

B: Which one of the parent-teacher meetings do you mean?

A: The parent-teacher meeting just before I went on vacation. I can't find any of my notes from that week. They are probably in my suitcase.

So I would say yes, if you needed to use a description of time to specify which noun you meant, then it's a very normal way to do it. A could have said "The ... meeting that was held on the day just before..." but it's common to leave it out.

You can also say it more generally. Meetings on Fridays before long weekends are often not very productive. Meetings [that are held] on Fridays before...

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (16,070)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

Nouns

CalifJim

#253181 Sun, 06 Aug 06 09:59 PM

In a conference bewteen NASA officials and Thiokol executives the night before the fateful launch, participants reinforced one another's commitment to go.

conference is a deverbal noun originating in the verb confer.
meeting is a deverbal noun originating in the verb meet.

All such deverbal nouns should be able to take a noun phrase adverbial of time without any problem.
Strictly speaking, the adverbial modifies the verbal aspect of the deverbal noun.
But if you wish to think of it slightly differently, the noun phrase becomes adjectival, modifying the (deverbal) noun.

Compare: walked quickly through the park -
                 a quick walk through the park
                 spoke endlessly about linguistics -
                 an endless speech about linguistics
                discover unexpectedly -
                 an unexpected discovery

Compare also:

The assembly last night of citizens of Barkerville turned into a riot when ...
The assembly of citizens of Barkerville last night turned into a riot when ...
The party at Bob's place Monday afternoon was the best I've ever attended.
The performance of Shakespeare's tragedy Othello this coming season by our local thespians is heralded as ...
I usually enjoy Dr. Bonehead's class, but his lecture last week was a real bore.
The position of the body the night of the tragedy led the detectives to suspect ...
The appearance of Cher at the award ceremony this month is sure to ...
Nothing can compare to my extreme embarrassment the day that I ...

And compare:

Last night's assembly of citizens ...
Last week's lecture ...
This month's appearance ...

CJ

CalifJim

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004

California

Veteran Member (17,714)

"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

Verbs, Nouns, Noun Phrases

Maple

#253184 Sun, 06 Aug 06 10:25 PM

So it has nothing to do with the preposition's "ellipsis" or "omition".

The crux is "a deverbal noun can take a noun phrase adverbial of time" normally. And the function of the noun phrase is very clear now. Star [star] Idea [I]

Maple

Joined on Tue, Jul 11 2006

An ESL student in China

Contributing Member (1,110)

Prepositions, Nouns, Noun Phrases

Pastsimple

#253198 Sun, 06 Aug 06 11:32 PM

Grammar Geek wrote:

Now, in the example you just gave above, I'd say 8 o'clock AT night, or 8 p.m. for business in the evening. Prepositions are funny things and I don't understand any logic behind them, but it's at night and in the evening.

I know I'm going to be off-topic but here it is:

I've recommended this before: Seth Lindstromberg, English Prepositions Explained. This is my favourite book on prepositions. Its cover says the book's also aimed at native speakers, be it teachers of English, editors, writers. Wonderful read! I would be really grateful if some native speaker grabbed a copy of the book and commented on it.

A message for all non-native speakers out there: you can't master English if you don't master prepositions.

Pastsimple

Joined on Thu, Feb 16 2006

Czech Republic, Europe

Full Member (303)

If you are a native speaker and find any grammar or stylistic mistakes in my posts, don't hesitate to tell me! I will really appreciate that.

Grammar, Prepositions

CalifJim

#253234 Mon, 07 Aug 06 02:30 AM

So it has nothing to do with the preposition's "ellipsis" or "omission"

Right!
I don't think there is a case in English where the same preposition applies to two consecutive noun phrases not joined by a conjunction.

*On my honor the field of battle, that was what I witnessed. instead of
On my honor, on the field of battle, that was what I witnessed.

*In my line of sight the living room was a gigantic sofa. instead of
In my line of sight, in the living room was a gigantic sofa.

The following is pure coincidence not involving the sharing of a preposition between two objects.

On our weekly conference call with headquarters Tuesday, we discussed the impending merger.
instead of
On our weekly conference call with headquarters on Tuesday, we discussed the impending merger.

The on before Tuesday is simply optional, not a case of sharing the on which begins the sentence.

CJ