We have partnered with TradePub to bring you free industry magazines and resources - no coupons or credit cards required!

Visit: englishforums.tradepub.com


1 2
Share this topic:
MrPedantic  +  462415 Wed, 09 Jan 08 11:04 PM

I opted for route 2; for me, "not as strong as" puts the focus on "strength" as a quality, whereas "weaker than" puts the focus on "weakness". In the former, we are looking towards the stronger party; in the latter, towards the weaker.

In relation to route 3: "not as strong as" can be forced into the meaning "stronger than"; but then it always has an element of "surprisal", e.g.

"Superman isn't as strong as Homer Simpson."
"What do you mean? Superman is infinitely stronger than Homer Simpson!"
"I rest my case. Superman isn't as strong as Homer Simpson."

MrP

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004
Veteran Member 12,592
...opella forensis / adducit febris...
Goodman  +  462417 Wed, 09 Jan 08 11:17 PM

[


 

Hi Kooyeen,


Heh, that's pretty difficult. I'm afraid there's no real connection, LOL. I think you are trying to improve the same way I used toYou are the only one who could improve the way you think, or used to think. Laughing out loud and thinking out loud are dangerous acts on forums like this. Wink [;)] I needed a lot of rules of thumb, Many learners living in non-English speaking lands surely will agree with you and feel the same. so that I could understand by myself what was good and what was not. The problem is that I found out English is actually a little bit too complicated, and I ended up asking a lot of questions (I still ask anyway, LOL). One of the latest complications I've come across is the fact that I realized there are too many different kinds of English. There are big differences between the ways people speak. So when you get an answer here, it's just one opinion, from one person. There are maybe thousands of people who would disagree, This phenomenon occurs even in English environments, perhaps more so, and so it's not unique to your situation. The reality is, we need to choose a source which we can trust and go with it. I rely on education and informative TV programs. but they don't post here, maybe then don't post anywhere, actually. One little example... if you ask here about "anyways", maybe you'll get an answer like "It's odd, some people might say it but it's incorrect and I cringe everytime I hear it". But I remember one time I was browsing through Youtube... I heard a lot of teenagers say "anyways" It's wrong and I heard from time to time from natives  as well.

Consider:

The US dollars used to be much stronger than Canadian's. = The Canadian dollars were much weaker than US dollars before.

The Canadian dollar is nearly as strong as the US dollar = The value of one Canadian dollar is barely less than that of US.

It's just a matter of how we want to convey the idea rather than the rule of thumb in my not-so-native mind.Smile [:)]

Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005
Senior Member 3,816
The name says it all!
Related discussions
Anonymous, 43 days ago
You gave us only one choice as to what 'A is not as strong as B'.  This is typically short hand for 'A is not as strong as B is strong'.   Out of context though, this is only a guess.  It might be short for 'A is not as strong as B is beautiful' .  A better choice out of context here would have been that 'B is stronger than A' as another way of saying 'A is not as strong as B'.   Do not equate 'not as...as' with 'not ='.   'is as...as' is another one of those shorthand forms.  Expanded it would be: 'is at least as...as'.  I often write 'is (at least) as...as' knowing that people are so often confused by the symmetric appearance of the as...as construction, that they too   

often read semantic import into the syntactical symmetry of the 'as...as'.     

   

Anonymous, 43 days ago
Part I: Yes.

 

Part II: I do use "weaker". Also - using "is not as strong as" lightens the tone. If you don't want to offend (or you're showing agreement toward) A, use "is not as strong as". If you want to emphasize B's strength, use "is weaker than".

 

I believe it's about the tone.

Clive  +  935628 Fri, 09 Oct 09 09:05 PM
Hi,

You gave us only one choice as to what 'A is not as strong as B'.  This is typically short hand for 'A is not as strong as B is strong'.   Out of context though, this is only a guess.  It might be short for 'A is not as strong as B is beautiful' .  

 

I've thought about your above remarks for a while, and I can't think of a real-life context in which someone would say 'A is not as strong as B', with the meaning I've marked in bold. Can you please suggest a natural context or dialogue in which this would be said?

 

Best wishes, Clive

Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004
Canada
Veteran Member 29,583
El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo
CalifJim  +  936329 Sat, 10 Oct 09 08:57 AM
Ordinary language logic is not the same as mathematical logic.


Consider the basic idea of equality.


Jack was assigned to clean out the stables, but he was not [equal to / up to] the task.


Note the measurement 'upward' from an assumed 'low' starting point of 'no ability to do the task'.  And how 'equal' is synonymous, in some sense, to 'up'.  There is no possibility whatsoever that this sentence could mean that Jack cleaned the stables even better than expected.


Likewise, as strong as = equal to the strength of = up to the strength of; not as strong as = not equal to the strength of = not up to the strength of (where equal has its ordinary language meaning -- not its mathmatical meaning).


All gradable adjectives are treated in the same way.  not as X indicates "not reaching as high on a scale starting from zero X-ness".  The metaphor is always of movement upward from a zero point and negation means the failure to reach a certain value along this upward movement.  The existence of an adjective with an opposite meaning is irrelevant, because that adjective is measured on its own scale from the zero-degree point of that adjective.


The fact that a joke results when the words are taken mathematically is proof that mathematical equality is not intended within the meaning of such expressions.  No one is ever admitting the possibility of his inferiority when he says, "You're not as smart as me"!  The response "No.  I'm smarter" is simply sophomoric. 


CJ

Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004
California
Veteran Member 22,389
"There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche
1 2
© MediaCet Ltd. 2009, v5.0.3607.32596. All content posted by our users is a contribution to the public domain, this does not include imported usenet posts.*
For web related enquires please contact us on webmaster@mediacet.com, status updates are available at status.mediacet.com.
*Usenet post removal: Use 'X-No-Archive'. You may not have understood that your posts would end up in the public domain. Please send proof of the poster's email, we will remove immediately.