the ~ thee

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Philip  #528942  Wed, 18 Jun 08 05:47 AM
Native speaker here, asking for perceptions of other native speakers, especially those who have a basic knowledge of linguistics.

Of course, I know the rule about pronouncing 'the' as 'thee' before vowel sounds:  thee afternoon, thee apple, thee orange, thee hour.  However, how about when the first vowel sound of the word is 'eee'.  I would say the utopian concept, the usual suspects.  I believe this is standard.  Keep in mind that the first vowel sound of these words is eee rather than u.  [Keep in mind I'm using standard English spelling to represent the sounds rather than the International Phonetic Alphabet.]

The real question now:  do we actually say thee evening, thee even numbers, thee eventuality or do we say the before these words?  I've tried to evaluate my own speech patterns, and I think I use the.  Just wondering if I'm alone.  Thanks for any ideas.
  
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Mister Micawber  #528953  Wed, 18 Jun 08 06:14 AM
.
I've tried this on myself several times over the years and get very inconsistent results.  I certainly don't think it's a rule, just a tendency.  With your last three (the evening, etc), I seem to pause after 'the' (not 'thee') to effect the enunciation.
  
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Philip  #528966  Wed, 18 Jun 08 06:31 AM
Mister Micawber
.
I've tried this on myself several times over the years and get very inconsistent results.  I certainly don't think it's a rule, just a tendency.  With your last three (the evening, etc), I seem to pause after 'the' (not 'thee') to effect the enunciation.
Interesting, and thanks for your reply.  I seem to insert a glottal stop if I try to say 'thee' before 'evening' rather than just slide from one word to the other.

Does anyone else want to chime in?
  
Kooyeen  #529355  Wed, 18 Jun 08 11:25 PM
Hmm, can I answer even though I am not a native speaker? Smile
I would say "thee eagle" because I learned to pronounce it "thee" before vowel sounds. Words like "university" and "wall" don't really start with a vowel sound, but with "semivowels", I think. In IPA they would be /j/ and /w/ respectively. That's why I say "the" in front of "university" and "wall".
Philip
I seem to insert a glottal stop if I try to say 'thee' before 'evening' rather than just slide from one word to the other.

That reminds me of some weak sounds the author of American Accent Training says learners should try to put between vowel sounds when connecting different words: Thee (j)other, three (j)oranges, etc.

Just my opinion.
  
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Mr Wordy  #529359  Wed, 18 Jun 08 11:41 PM

I say the yootopian and the yoosual (the "e" pronounced as "uh", just as before a consonant). The first sound of those words is nothing like eee for me.

I also say thee evening, thee even numbers etc. Maybe there's the faintest sense that the "ee" is not so much of an "ee" as in "the apple" and "the hour", but it's very marginal.

  
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