the use of suppose

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qingqing

#127266 Mon, 15 Aug 05 03:57 PM

I suppose you didn't see the notebook on the table, little boy?

Is this sentence right? What about" I don't suppose you saw the note book..."

qingqing

Joined on Mon, Jan 10 2005

Full Member (169)

Philip

#127270 Mon, 15 Aug 05 04:09 PM

Both are correct. And of course either one can carry a little sarcasm with it.

Philip

Joined on Thu, Jun 23 2005

USA Pacific Northwest (Seattle)

Veteran Member (6,181)

At reise er at leve! - H. C. Andersen

qingqing

#128780 Sat, 20 Aug 05 02:16 AM

Then, what about "I don't believe Tom has done it" and "I believe Tom hasn't done it"?

And also "I don't guess Tom has done it." and "I guess Tom hasn't done it"?

qingqing

Mister Micawber

#128818 Sat, 20 Aug 05 06:38 AM

The same in meaning-- though specialized exceptions will arise (no doubt, later in this thread). The phenomenon is fronting of the negation, which we have discussed elsewhere (and which will require Paco in order to locate). The effect is the carrying of the negation to the main verb (suppose, believe, think)-- but, interestingly, doesn't seem to work (at least for me) with guess: I don't guess sounds odd to my ears; perhaps it is an anomalous exception?

Mister Micawber

Joined on Wed, Aug 4 2004

Yokohama

Veteran Member (21,223)

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master-- that's all.'

Verbs, Negations

paco2004

#128840 Sat, 20 Aug 05 10:00 AM

Hello MM

I suppose what you are seeking are those: post 63631 and post 120154

By the way, I googled "I don't guess it's good" and "I guess it isn't good". The former hit only 6 pages, whereas the latter did 367 pages. So your instinct proves correct. But I wonder why "guess" and "think" behave so differently in respect of negation raising.

paco

paco2004

Joined on Wed, Nov 17 2004

Senior Member (4,095)

In Japan today even dogs are learning how to bow-wow in English.

Negations

Mister Micawber

#128899 Sat, 20 Aug 05 02:51 PM

Thanks, Paco.

Quirk, et al are no help with the reason; they just say that some do and some don't usually take transferred negation.

Do: anticipate, be supposed to, believe, calculate, expect, figure, imagine, reckon, suppose, think, appear, seem, feel/look/sound as if, wish (infinitive clauses only), say (with modals shouldn't and couldn't primarily)

Don't: assume, presume, surmise

And gee!-- they don't even mention guess.

Mister Micawber

Resume, Clauses, Modals, Negations, Infinitive clauses

davkett

#128905 Sat, 20 Aug 05 03:00 PM

Do you mean these two don't equate?--

'I assume nothing'

'I don't assume anything'

Or is the keyword 'usually' in 'don't usually take transferred negation'?

davkett

Joined on Tue, Jun 7 2005

Pennsylvania, USA

Senior Member (2,788)

"The rose stays fresh in its name..." -Bernard of Morlay

Negations

davkett

#128907 Sat, 20 Aug 05 03:03 PM

There's also the recent Post:128197

davkett

Anonymous

#128921 Sat, 20 Aug 05 03:47 PM

I wouldn't dare go that far myself, Dave; just--

I assume you don't smoke vs I don't assume you smoke.

But, yes, I added the usually to cover Quirk's exceptions (q.v.) And thanks for the link-- which leads to further linkage. That should cover the subject thoroughly!

(I'm Anonymous again.. Grrr.-- MM)

Anonymous

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