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The word 'FACT' or 'FACTS'

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Latest post Sun, Aug 23 2009 5:55 AM by buckmajor. 7 replies.
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buckmajor  +  869516 Thu, 20 Aug 09 01:21 PM
Hi there


This may seem a bit odd for most poeple but I need some further clarity on the word 'FACT' or 'FACTS'. I have my own understanding but its not enough so I looked it up again in the dictionary and this is what I found:


FACT: From the Oxford dictionary

--

Something known to be true

--


Did I interpret the word 'FACT' correctly:

1. A Subject/Something which is known to be true? (Always true)

OR

2. A Subject/Something which could or maybe known to be true? (Can be true but not always)


Can no.1 also means 'FACT' is the same as 'TRUTH'?


I appreciate your help.

Many thanks in advance


CHEERS :)
buckmajor
, ,
Best answer by Clive  +  869531 Thu, 20 Aug 09 02:07 PM
Hi,

My dictionary offers this.

 

fact

1, a thing that is known to have occured, exist or be true.

2. a thing that is believed or claimed to be true.

3 law a piece of evidence, an item of verified information, or events and circumstances as distinct from their legal interpretation

4 truth, reality

 

 

This may seem a bit odd for most poeple but I need some further clarity on the word 'FACT' or 'FACTS'. I have my own understanding but its not enough so I looked it up again in the dictionary and this is what I found:


FACT: From the Oxford dictionary

--

Something known to be true

--


Did I interpret the word 'FACT' correctly:

1. A Subject/Something which is known to be true? (Always true)

OR

2. A Subject/Something which could or maybe known to be true? (Can be true but not always)


Can no.1 also means 'FACT' is the same as 'TRUTH'?

Yes, if you mean 'something that is known to be true'.

eg Water freezes below zero degrees celsius. 

 

But there is also 'something that is claimed to be true'.

eg Obama wants to make the US a socialist country.

 

Sometimes it's hard to distinguish the two categories. How would you classify these statements?

The Earth is round.

The Earth is flat. (This was once considered a fact.)

God exists.

Tom is a liar.

 

In short, I think you need to comsider some actual examples.

 

Best wishes, Clive

 
Clive
All the other replies..
buckmajor  +  869553 Thu, 20 Aug 09 02:51 PM
EXCELLENT!! That was really good, thanks Clive, the example given by you was perfect. It helped so much to even ask more questions

--

But there is also 'something that is claimed to be true'.

eg Obama wants to make the US a socialist country.

--


If this was claimed to be true, does it still come under 'TRUTH'? I was thinking about it and did some research on 'TRUTH'. My understanding of 'TRUTH' is; ALWAYS TRUE' , accuracy or absolutely certain it will happen (I think). But when the subject is proclaimed, sometimes it doesn't always come true. What do you think? Hope I said it right.


I'm glad you replied, this is really streching my mind.
buckmajor
Anonymous, 93 days ago
If you take the "Obama wants to make the US a socialist country" example, you need to consider who would be considering that as FACT or TRUTH.  People who think Obama has plans to do this may think it is a fact, or that it is the truth.  Those who do not believe Obama wants to make the U.S. a socialist country certainly would not think that statement is a fact.

 

If Obama said "I want the USA to become socialist", then you could say, without a doubt, that the statement above is a fact, and that it is the truth, because it would have been proven by Obama's statement.

 

If you want examples of things that are ALWAYS TRUE, or ALWAYS FACT, look at these:

 

Humans breathe air.

 

Grass is green.

 

Oceans contain salt water.

 

^ These are all FACT, or TRUTH.   You could also say that these statements are Factual, or Truthful. 

 

Sometimes, these sorts of things are called "hard facts" because they are accurate and there is really no disagreement or room for argument about them the way there is for the Obama comment.

Clive  +  870806 Fri, 21 Aug 09 04:28 PM
Hi,

I enjoyed reading your comments ,in the last post, about this tricky area..

 

Here's my thought concerning this statement.

 "Obama wants to make the US a socialist country"

If Obama said "I want the USA to become socialist", then you could say, without a doubt, that the statement above is a fact, and that it is the truth, because it would have been proven by Obama's statement.

Obama is unlikely to say this if it is not true, but who knows? Ronald Reagan said 'We begin bombing in 5 minutes' as a joke.  

Consider a simpler example. Tom says 'I love Mary'. I wouldn't say that proves 'Tom loves Mary' is a fact.

 

Best wishes, Clive

 

 

 
Clive
, ,
buckmajor  +  871188 Sat, 22 Aug 09 04:09 AM
WOW! This is getting better and better. Just when I thought it was solved, then something else comes up.


I was reading both the anonymous and Clive's comment, they added more depth what I originally had.

I accept these examples as FACT, or TRUTH.

--

Humans breathe air.


^ These are all FACT, or TRUTH. You could also say that these statements are Factual, or Truthful.

--

But what Clive said "Consider a simpler example. Tom says 'I love Mary'. I wouldn't say that proves 'Tom loves Mary' is a fact.".

Was something I was looking for to my question that I asked earlier and I think it makes so much sense to me now.


Hope I got this right, although anyone can make a statement but it doesn't always prove to be a Fact as Clive mentioned, unless it is delivered or the result comes to past on what was said, then would that be considered as a FACT? Which is why I asked about FACT and TRUTH cause I thought 'TRUTH' always delivers no matter what it is or is already proven e.g. Humans breath air.


Another question came to mind about the "Grass being green", I can accept it to be green. However, what would you call if it changes color e.g. decays or withers..from green to brown/yellow? Do I still accept it "Grass being green"? Would this be like the human form; from baby, youth, young adult, adult, elderly? Still a human but dfferent transformation.


It feels like I'm confusing myself



buckmajor
Clive  +  871541 Sat, 22 Aug 09 01:04 PM
Hi,

You are moving away from simple vocabulary definition and into the realm of philosophy.

 

I don't know how deeply you want to go into all of this.

For example, you might be interested in the ideas of Wittgenstein. Have a look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_Investigations#Language.2C_meaning.2C_and_use

 

Best wishes, Clive
Clive
,
buckmajor  +  872217 Sun, 23 Aug 09 05:55 AM
True!! The realm of philosophy. Thanks.
buckmajor
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