There were a group of people

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Kooyeen  #332150  Thu, 22 Feb 07 02:12 PM
Hi,
here's another thing that is driving me crazy:

There is/are a group.
There was/were a group.
There is/are a group of people
There was/were a group of people.
There is/are a group of people who are trying to block the road.
There was/were a group of people who were trying to block the road.
A group is/are approaching us.
A group was/were approaching us.

It seems that "group" is singular when alone, and is followed by a plural verb when used with a plural noun. Yeah, followed, but what should I use "before" a group? Is there a group of people, or are there?
This is confusing, considering that it's always "There were a couple of things", not "There was...", so maybe "a group" is a kind of exception.

Thank you in advance. Smile [:)]


  
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Arvsworld  #332156  Thu, 22 Feb 07 02:38 PM

"a" group = one group = 1 group

Regardless of how many people are members of that group, it is still referred to as a single unit -- so you must use is or was.

On the other hand, if there are 2 or more different groups trying to block the road, you would use are or were.  If one is a group of Martians and the other is a group of Elves, and they were both trying to block the road, then you would say, "There are 2 groups..." or "There were 2 groups..."

- Arvin G.

  
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Philip  #332198  Thu, 22 Feb 07 04:46 PM
 Kooyeen wrote:
Hi,
here's another thing that is driving me crazy:

There is/are a group.
There was/were a group.
There is/are a group of people
There was/were a group of people.
There is/are a group of people who are trying to block the road
There was/were a group of people who were trying to block the road.
A group is/are approaching us.
A group was/were approaching us.

It seems that "group" is singular when alone, and is followed by a plural verb when used with a plural noun. Yeah, followed, but what should I use "before" a group? Is there a group of people, or are there?
This is confusing, considering that it's always "There were a couple of things", not "There was...", so maybe "a group" is a kind of exception.

Thank you in advance. Smile [:)]


I'll let the staunch grammaraians battle this one out.  To my ear, the singular is better (a group) except when you add the plural word "people" for the following phrase.
  
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CalifJim  #332224  Thu, 22 Feb 07 06:27 PM
Think about it!  This is really more logical than you think.

There is a group.

There is only one thing - a group - singular.

People are trying to block the road - more than one person - plural.

So, people who (i.e., they) are trying to block the road.

The single group is composed of more than one person.

[There is a group of (composed of)] [ people who are trying to block the road].

CJ

a couple of, a number of, and several others are the exceptions.  They are "number transparent".  That is, the agreement is with their complements, not with their heads.  There are a [couple / number] of people ...

CJ



  
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Kooyeen  #332278  Thu, 22 Feb 07 09:42 PM
 CalifJim wrote:


a couple of, a number of, and several others are the exceptions.  They are "number transparent".  That is, the agreement is with their complements, not with their heads.  There are a [couple / number] of people ...



Yeah, that's what confused me. There are a bunch of people, and that bunch of people are over there. But there is a group of people, and that group of people are over there. That group looks suspicious...

How strange.
Thank you. Smile [:)]

  
Cool Breeze  #332282  Thu, 22 Feb 07 09:51 PM
 CalifJim wrote:
Think about it!  This is really more logical than you think.

There is a group.

There is only one thing - a group - singular.


Hi Jim

I agree with you but with English more than one kind of logic apply, in actual usage anyway. Smile [:)] It is true that 'there is only one thing  -  a group'. In BrE in particular, a plural verb is often used when 'there is only one thing': England are winning. Only one country is mentioned but the England team consists of many players. By the same logic, a group consists of several people and consequently many people wouldn't hesitate to say: there were a group of people in the street. (I am one of them.)

Liberal grammarians don't find that objectionable. According to these usage experts, the choice of the verb is quite free in English:

There is/are a book, a pen and a pencil on the table.

But, as I said, there is nothing wrong with your logic. I just wanted to mention another way to look at the matter, a way favored by many.

Cheers
CB
  
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CalifJim  #332285  Thu, 22 Feb 07 09:59 PM
Also, There's a bunch of people over there.

The cases with there is / there are are almost a separate class by themselves.  In informal language (in the U.S.)  you can use the contraction there's (but not there is) with just about anything.

There's lots of people that are afraid of spiders.
There's snacks in the fridge if you're hungry.
There's too many books on this desk.  I should straighten things out a bit.
There's
still a few rooms available (at this motel).  Do you want to stay here?
-- Are there any restaurants around here?  -- There's several on Pine Street.


CJ



  
Kooyeen  #332291  Thu, 22 Feb 07 10:23 PM
 CalifJim wrote:

The cases with there is / there are are almost a separate class by themselves.  In informal language (in the U.S.)  you can use the contraction there's (but not there is) with just about anything.



Oh, yes, exactly. I know that, but I didn't mention it because it would have complicated matters (I was actually only interested in the choice between singular and plural verbs). Anyway, thanks for pointing that out, it's always useful to get some more information, I'm more likely to learn something new.
It seems that "there's" is pretty common (in the US, at least). I also remember hearing that in a video we discussed here, in another section of this forum: "How many sides does a triangle have?" - "Uh, uh, there's no sides." Stick out tongue [:P]

Thanks again to you all for your opinions.
Smile [:)]

  
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