These ones and those ones

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MrPedantic

#412721 Sat, 01 Sep 07 04:24 PM

And it's an odd thing to bystand at, when you think about it.

MrPedantic

Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004

Veteran Member (12,055)

...opella forensis / adducit febris...

Anonymous

#445238 Thu, 22 Nov 07 06:41 PM

LOL @ the odd bystander commenting on the words of a stranger. By the way, I am elated to find out that "these ones" and "those ones" are British phrases. I'm from Africa and we learned British English so there are a lot of things that sound odd to Americans, but which have always seemed correct to me. These phrases are great examples. And I have to say I'm relieved to discover that I wasn't wrong; just speaking British. :c)

Anonymous

British English

Anonymous

#452524 Wed, 12 Dec 07 07:29 PM

I agree that it is not correct to say "these ones" or "those ones" (although I say it all the time) because "these" and "those" are pronouns. However, I disagree that "one" cannot be made plural. I look at "ones" as being like saying "singles."

Anonymous

Plurals, Nouns, Pronouns

Anonymous

#545631 Wed, 23 Jul 08 11:25 PM

Anonymous
It is true that "ones," according to proper grammar should not follow "these" or "those" only because one is a singular object. If there is a plural number, "one" becomes inappropriate however there are few people I know (I live in the midwest US) that do not use this construction, as in common speech leaving an object out of a sentence sounds strange or over educated.

My wife and I both hail from the Southwestern US (California and Arizona, mainly), and we disagree on this. I've never used "these ones" or "those ones", and I think it sounds clumsy and unnatural. She and her family have always used it, and don't don't an eyelash over it. It's sort of like when you're a good speller, but you need to see the written word, to see how it looks, to know if it's right or not. I'm not a grammar expert, but I understand English better than most, and when I hear that it just makes me wince ever so slightly.

Grammar Geek
Anon, what pronoun would you suggest then for something to replace "pens" in the second and third line below?

I'm looking for a particular set of drawing pens.

Are these the pens you're looking for?

Thanks, but no, those aren't the pens I'm looking for.

(I agree that "Those ones aren't the right ones" is wrong - it's simply "Those." But I don't agree that ones can't be plural.)

See, this the weird thing. While that last sentence doesn't sound right, this one does:

Are these the pens you're looking for?

Thanks, but no, those aren't the ones I'm looking for.

Anonymous

Grammar, Plurals, Constructions, Nouns, Pronouns, Numbers, Proper Grammar

Anonymous

#548355 Tue, 29 Jul 08 11:38 PM

Simply put you can not have a plural pronoun describing a singular occurence.

If you want to know how to restate your sentence do the following:

Are these the pens you're looking for?

Thanks, but no, those are not what I'm looking for. You don't have to restate pens again. Those is a plural pronoun for pens. Ones would be using another prounoun for pens but this time is is in the singular form with a s making it plural. Makes completely no sense at all.

He is correct.

Anonymous

Plurals, Nouns, Pronouns

Grammar Geek

#548616 Wed, 30 Jul 08 01:31 PM

I simply disagree.

Are these the ones you're looking for?

Thanks, but those aren't the ones. The ones I'm looking for are red felt-tip markers. Those are black.

Grammar Geek

Joined on Tue, Jan 10 2006

Pennsylvania, USA

Veteran Member (15,622)

Barbara, who answers in American English.

khoff

#548830 Wed, 30 Jul 08 08:31 PM

Anonymous, I believe you are the one whose opinion is wrong. Of course "ones" can be used as a plural. How else would you say, "which ones do you want?" My dictionary gives "unit" as a synonym of "one" -- would you also say that "unit" cannot be made plural because it refers to a single thing? In fact, every word that appears in the singular refers to a single thing, and most, if not all of them, can be made plural. You say, " Adding an "S" makes a singular plural. It's a contradiction." Well, It's not a contradiction. It's a rule of grammar. Adding an "s" makes a singular plural. That's how it's done.

By the way -- since you are anonymous, I don't know if you are new to English Forums or not -- but if you are, I would like to say that anonymously insulting someone who is identified as both a proficient speaker and a moderator ("Perhaps you were raised to speak incorrectly.") is not the best way to get off to a good start.

khoff

Joined on Sun, Mar 6 2005

Denver, Colorado, USA, Earth

Senior Member (2,574)

Native speaker of American English (but not a grammar expert)

Grammar, Plurals, Synonyms

Anonymous

#562121 Wed, 03 Sep 08 06:27 PM

sorry to be anonymouse (it's just quicker).

I'm British and have to say that "these ones" and "those ones" are NOT BRITISH terms.
It's very easy to blame us I guess, but to me it's only used by people who don't know any better, whether they are British, American or otherwise.
Yes British people use such terms (I hear them more often than I'd like to) but it is not considered to be good grammar in this country.

J

Anonymous

Grammar, British people

Clive

#562123 Wed, 03 Sep 08 06:38 PM

Hi,

No-one seems to have made the point yet that 'those/these' in the phrases 'those pens' and 'these pens' are demonstrative adjectives and not pronouns.
As demonstrative adjectives, I see nothing wrong with using these words in 'these ones/those ones'.

Best wishes, Clive