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Tone contour

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Avangi  #543875  Sun, 20 Jul 08 09:12 AM
Hi Wang,

I'm puzzles about the 4-tone vs the 5-tone system.  In describing the 4-tone system you've used 1,2, 3, 4, and 5.

Also, I was hoping you'd respond to my question about the approximately 1-octave change in pitch range which all males experience during youth.

Has anyone used Hertz (cycles per second) in describing the four tones?

Best wishes,  - A.
  
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New2grammar  #543878  Sun, 20 Jul 08 09:24 AM
I think the answer is yes. I know it's true for pitch and according to wiki, tone and pitch have a positive relationship, so yes, IMO.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_(music)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_%28linguistics%29
  
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nona the brit  #544024  Sun, 20 Jul 08 02:20 PM
This is hard for English speakers to learn as although we use different tones, they are not 'set' and certainly do not completely change the meaning of a word. We mainly use them to add what you might call the emotional meaning of a word beyond its literal meaning. well there are some cases where we change the meaning and perhaps just pointing some examples out would help your pupils.

For example

What are you doing that for? Can be said in a way that means a genuine question, or an annoyed/exasperated/upset/frustrated/angry statement, all depending on the tones used.

I have some contact with a tonal language that has 3 tones that completely change the meaning of the words. People are taught to think of 'doh ray me' and whether to use a doh tone, a ray tone or a me tone for each part of the word. You could extend this to doh ray me far. These are names of notes in the Western tradition of music that most people will know (certainly if they've ever seen the film The Sound of Music!). This might help get sufficient difference to the tones, but they might not match the correct Chinese tones, I don't know. It would help you get the point across, anyway. You can also draw a line representing the shape of the tones, rather than numbers, so a word that starts with a low tone, goes up to a high tone, then returns to the low tone would be accompanied by a line that looks like the general symbol shape for mountain, for example. Up to a peak, then down again.

  
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Lcwang  #544247  Mon, 21 Jul 08 04:47 AM
Hi Avangi:

Sorry for confusion. Let me try to make it clearer: Every Chinese word (generally understood as "character". Every word or every character has only one syllable) has four different tones. These tone are ‘set’ and don’t change according to speaking situations. The same word with different tone has different meaning. We use a five level “tone counter” system to describe the tone. That’s why we have ma 214 to mean horse, ma 55 to mean mother, ma 51 to mean scolding, or 35 numbness.

As to the other questions you raised, they are beyond my knowledge to reply. I am sorry.

regards / Wang

  
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Lcwang  #544250  Mon, 21 Jul 08 04:49 AM
Hi, nona the brit:

I think I got your point. Thank you.

Wang
  
Avangi  #544313  Mon, 21 Jul 08 07:54 AM
Lcwang
We use a five level “tone counter” system to describe the tone.
Hi, Wang.  I'm beginning to get the picture.  The single-syllable character "ma" has four tones and four meanings.  The first is "pronounced" by changing levels twice  -  starting at level 2, then dropping to the lowest level, then rising quite high to level 4.  The second "tone" is spoken at the highest level, and does not change.  The third tone starts at the highest level and then drops to the lowest level.  The fourth tone begins at mid level (3) and then rises to the highest level.

May I ask two questions?  (1) would the average person pronounce "mother" (ma 55) at the exact same level on every occasion?   (2) does one use what's known in music as "portamento"  (carrying the tone    -    what you would call the level) in passing from five to one in "scolding"?  That is, does one slide from five to one (5-4-3-2-1) or move abruptly so that the intermediate levels are not noticable?

Regards,  - A.
  
New2grammar  #544317  Mon, 21 Jul 08 08:01 AM
Avangi
That is, does one slide from five to one (5-4-3-2-1) or move abruptly so that the intermediate levels are not noticable?


Tricky...The transition is usually very quick. You can prolong it and it will still be understandable  but dragging it too long may sound weird. Nobody says it that way. Just a man's opinion.
  
Lcwang  #544363  Mon, 21 Jul 08 10:28 AM
Hi, Avangi:

The answer to your first question is yes,  to the second question, I am afraid I can't give you an answer, as we are not really aware of that. Perhaps some particular person with particular speaking habit may do that.

Regards
Wang
  
Avangi  #544513  Mon, 21 Jul 08 03:08 PM
Thanks, New2 and Wang.
  
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