Taka  +  585237 Sat, 08 Nov 08 03:18 PM There is no domestic animal which has so rapidly altered its whole way of living, indeed its whole sphere of interests, that has become domestic in so true a sense as the dog; and there is no animal that, in the course of its centuries-old association with man, has altered so little as the cat. Is the second 'alter(ed)' in red, is it transitive, as the one in blue, or intransitive? Or is it ambiguous and practically hard to tell? Taka Joined on Tue, Sep 7 2004 Japan Senior Member 2,625

	Clive  +  585240 Sat, 08 Nov 08 03:22 PM Hi Taka, There is no domestic animal which has so rapidly altered its whole way of living, indeed its whole sphere of interests, that has become domestic in so true a sense as the dog; and there is no animal that, in the course of its centuries-old association with man, has altered so little as the cat. Is the second 'alter(ed)' in red, is it transitive, as the one in blue, or intransitive? Intransitive. Or is it ambiguous and practically hard to tell? No. It's not. There is clearly no object anywhere in the associated syntax. Clive Clive Joined on Thu, Oct 28 2004 Canada Veteran Member 29,628 El tango argentino es un pensamiento triste que se puede bailar (The tango argentino is a sad thought which can be danced) Enrique Santos Discépolo

	Taka  +  585248 Sat, 08 Nov 08 03:39 PM 'Little' can be a noun as in this one, right? They did little to help the children. And since it's about the contrast between the dog, which has changed its whole way of living, and the cat, which has changed little of its way of living, wouldn't it also be possible to take it as transitive? Taka Nouns

	Clive  +  585257 Sat, 08 Nov 08 04:13 PM Hi, 'Little' can be a noun as in this one, right? Yes. They did little to help the children. And since it's about the contrast between the dog, which has changed its whole way of living, and the cat, which has changed little of its way of living, wouldn't it also be possible to take it as transitive? I suppose so. But it seems like such an unlikely interpretation that it didn't even occur to me. 'Altered so little' seems to me to have a strongly adverbial feel to it. In addition, at a semantic level, cats are so independent that we don't think of them as altering anything even in a small way. Clive Clive Nouns

	Taka  +  585261 Sat, 08 Nov 08 04:25 PM Clive “ In addition, at a semantic level, cats are so independent that we don't think of them as altering anything even in a small way. Clive ”   What does it have to do with their independency? Cats are independent of men and they have changed so little of their ways of living. To me, it doesn't sound wrong.  Taka

	Clive  +  585282 Sat, 08 Nov 08 05:47 PM Clive Clive

	Taka  +  585291 Sat, 08 Nov 08 06:07 PM I don't know what that smiley is supposed to mean, but you might think cats have not changed anything; they haven't changed anything whatsoever in their ways, which is different from 'having changed so little (of their ways)'. If you think that way, I disagree. As domesticated animals, they have changed a little bit, just a little bit, of their ways of living, so little that if you don't look at them carefully, you won't notice what they've changed; but if you compare them with the relatives in the wild, you'll see the difference. So I don't think there is anything wrong with saying 'during the process of domestication, cats have changed (i.e. altered) so little of their ways of living'. Taka

	Clive  +  585305 Sat, 08 Nov 08 08:08 PM Hi, You said 'To me, it doesn't sound wrong'. My smiley just mean 'OK, that's fine by me'. Adverbial or noun phrase, the meaning seems essentially the same to me. Best wishes, Clive Clive Nouns, Noun Phrases

	Taka  +  585502 Sun, 09 Nov 08 10:52 AM OK. So I take it as a message that your default understanding is that it's not transitive but it doesn't mean that taking it as transitive is impossible. Thanks, Clive. Taka