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Translation of a Turkish lyric..

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SunFlowerSeed  #321041  Sun, 28 Jan 07 05:19 PM
I am trying to translate a very complicated lyric into english.
I am not sure of using of  be(am) or become.
Actually the word is be, but it looked odd to say If I am water.

The lyric also looks silly too, but it looks meaningfull in the original language and has a good melody.

The bold-italic parts are the main problem. But I am open to any suggestion and correction.

Benimle oynar mısın?                           Would you play with me?


Su olsam ateş olsam                                  If I be/become water, If I be/become fire
Göklerdeki güneş olsam                            If I be/become the sun in the sky,
Konuşmasam taş olsam                             If I don't speak and be/become a stone
Yine de oynar mısın benimle?                    Would you play with me in this case?

Susulsam kusur olsam                               If I don't speak and be/become a failure    (To be a failure/fault because of not speaking, not a mute person)
Ağızdaki küfür olsam                                If I be/become the bad word/swear in the mouth
Doğuştan esir olsam                                 If I am a slave-born (to be a slave because of his birth, born as a slave)
Yine de oynar mısın benimle?                   Would you play with me in this case?

Sayılmasam kaç olsam                            If I can't be countable and be how much.
Topraktaki güç olsam                             If I be/become the power in the earth
Aptal gibi suç olsam                               If I be/become guilty of being silly
Yine de oynar mısın benimle?                 Would you play with me in this case?

Benimle oynar mısın?                              Would you play with me?
Benimle oynar mısın?                              Would you play with me?


  
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Marius Hancu  #321055  Sun, 28 Jan 07 06:01 PM
Should I become water
or
If I were water

[no feeling of becoming here though, just the state]

Would you play with me then?

If I can't be countable and be how much.
it's not clear what you mean there. 
There's no such thing as being countable about beings in English.

  
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SunFlowerSeed  #321076  Sun, 28 Jan 07 06:56 PM
Thanks for replying.

>If I were water, if I were fire.<  --- Actually they are states.
>Would you play with me then?< --- Sometimes I just can't find the right word. Smile [:)]  Can I add a 'too' after 'then', or is it better to use 'also' before 'play'.

If I can't be countable and be how much.

The meaning of this meaningless looking, completely wrong sentence is the state of something before it is counted. The verb is to count.
That's why I tried to say how much. Normally before counting something you ask the question How much/many, then you start counting to
fullfill the state of being how much. I think I can never be clear on it. Lacking of words. I mean if there is a kind of noun version of how much.
I won't be able to explain it more, I hope someone can guess it.

If I haven't been counted and If I were ......?uncounted?......(being in the state of not counted yet )

Please don't ask why he counts himself. The lyric goes so...

  
Philip  #321083  Sun, 28 Jan 07 07:15 PM
 SunFlowerSeed wrote:




Sayılmasam kaç olsam                            If I can't be countable and be how much.
Topraktaki güç olsam                             If I be/become the power in the earth
Aptal gibi suç olsam                               If I be/become guilty of being silly
Yine de oynar mısın benimle?                 Would you play with me in this case?

Benimle oynar mısın?                              Would you play with me?
Benimle oynar mısın?                              Would you play with me?


Are you sure it isn't sayılmazsam?  Something like "if I can't be counted, how much I might be worth".
  
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SunFlowerSeed  #321103  Sun, 28 Jan 07 07:52 PM
I just copied the lyric from a Turkish songs' lyrics page.
I know the song well. One of my favorites.

The word is sayılmasam, not sayılmazsam.
I don't want to get involved in a Turkish grammer question, because this is a English grammar forum.
But in case you are interested in, meaning of sayılmasam and sayılmazsam are close.

Sayılmasam  = If I haven't been counted by someone else. Meaning in present tense (for that moment). If I am not being counted by someone else.
                      ( here >ıl< by someone else. )
Sayılmazsam = If I usually haven't been count by someone else. Meaning in general tense which is also a kind of present tense I think.
                        Covering some of Past, Present, Future. I mean always or anytime.

This word also has the meaning of  ''if you don't get it as ....(a word that you think the other person gets it offensive)......'' but not in this sentence.

If you'd like to say ''if I can't be counted'' then it should be sayılamazsam or sayılamasam.

That also shows my mistake on translation, thanks for pointing it out, it should be If I haven't been counted and .....being in a state of not counted....
I am  also not sure whether it should be past perfect or past tense or present tense but not present continous.

I am really sorry for posting something on Turkish grammer.
I thought Philip wanted some explanation.

  
Marius Hancu  #321114  Sun, 28 Jan 07 08:27 PM
Still not clear what meaning of count you have in mind.
Count means e.g. to assign numbers.
  
SunFlowerSeed  #321127  Sun, 28 Jan 07 09:04 PM
The easiest explanation of the whole lyric is
''Even if I am/were water,fire,stone or even something unthinkable like this KAÇ/How many, would you still love me.''

The verb is to count. Like counting people, books, pieces, scores, numbers.
It has another meaning as I stated in the previous post but here it is to count by numbers.

---How many books are there?
---10 books.

You need to ask 'how many' to get the counted number, right?
That word doesn't fit in the sentence, but I can't find the word and/grammar to replace 'how many'.

Sayılmasam kaç olsam.

Sayılmasam: If I am not being counted.
                    (This should be in present tense, not present continous. It is almost 5am here and I feel pretty tired.)
Kaç  : How many or how much ... This word literally means how many. Example: Kaç book? ==> How many books?
          But here it is the object part of the sentence and it means something in the original language that the thing I don't know
          how to express it in English. It is the state of being HOW MANY. Not as a question. The closest one I could think is UNCOUNTED or NOT COUNTED.
         But it doesn't give a strong feeling as 'how many'.
Olsam : If I to be

Sorry for using another language than English. But just wanted to show the original grammar to be more clear.

It is already 5am and I need a good sleep to think about it more.
If you can think of something that can be used in its place, i will be grateful.
Also any correction,suggestion in the grammar are all welcome.
I hope everybody is having a nice day. Mine is just ended now.
  
Marius Hancu  #321160  Sun, 28 Jan 07 09:38 PM
Well, perhaps this meaning:

If I were/was an unimportant fellow, If I were/was a guy with no importance, If I were/was a nobody,
(if my presence would not count).
  
SunFlowerSeed  #321338  Mon, 29 Jan 07 06:17 AM
Thanks everybody for sparing their times to check this topic.
Please check it one last time if there is something wrong or odd looking.

If I were the water, If I were the fire
If I were the sun in the sky
If I don't speak thus be/am/were a/the numb
Would you play with me then?


If I can't speak thus be/am/were a/the fault
If I were a/the curse in the mouth
If I were a/the slave of my born
Would you play with me then?

If I were nobody thus be/am/were an unknown
If I were a/the power in the earth
If I were a/the guilt like being silly
Would you play with me then?

Would you play with me?
Would you play with me?

Questions:
1.Can 'the' be used to improve the meaning, to evoke more metaphors in the mind or to make the reader get what he thinks at the moment?
   If I were water or If I were the water.
   If I were the curse in the mouth or If I were a curse in the mouth.
  'a' is used to stress unknown objects and 'the' is used to stress known objects.
  The original language(Turkish) of the lyric doesn't have a clear 'the' information.
  You need to guess it, if you need it. 'Book' and 'The book' sound same. But 'A Book' sounds different.

2.Which one is correct after thus, be/am/were in above lines?

3.Is it correct to say slave of my born for a slave-born person?

Thanks in advance,

  
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