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milky  #402351  Thu, 09 Aug 07 12:20 PM

What's your take on this comment when related to prescriptive rules of grammar? Are there true, correct prescriptive rules for English grammar?

"It is possible that in business there is one way or a few ways that reap maximum profits--more than any other method. If you accept this as true, then you must accept that there can be true, correct prescriptive rules."

  
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Hume said that if we had perfect or complete descriptive knowledge of reality, we could not, by reasoning, derive a single valid "ought".
Anonymous  #482823  Thu, 28 Feb 08 03:23 PM

I truly believe in the prescriptive rules of grammar. Unfortunately, grammar is not as easy as certain math problems (where one plus one always equals two), but there are right ways to do things, and there are wrong ways. People who try to change the language and adapt it to fit the way people use it are only causing the breakdown of our language. You can't throw in a comma where it doesn't belong. You can't decide to write something just because you like it that way. You have to follow the rules (unless you're breaking them on purpose for some creative literary reason) if you expect people to respect you as a writer and understand your words. I absolutely hate dictionary.com, which is more of a descriptive dictionarly. Prescriptive is the way to go!

  
Yoong Liat  #482832  Thu, 28 Feb 08 03:56 PM

I learn correct English through dictionaries, grammar and English usage books. From them I learn about correct grammar and usage of words.

Presciprive rules of grammar and usage of words are like the laws of a country. If there were no laws, a country would be in chaos.

Similarly, if there were no rules in English, everyone could write in any way they believe is correct.

  
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Philip  #483236  Fri, 29 Feb 08 03:28 PM
 When learning a language, it is good to know the rules.  When proficient, one can "bend" the rules for an effect.  I often use funny turns in my formal writing, but I know that the listener/reader will know that I am doing it intentionally and not from ignorance.
  
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Yankee  #484209  Sun, 02 Mar 08 11:11 PM
I think what people tend to forget is that English was not "invented" by some god-like group of linguists who first sat down and wrote up a list of prescriptive rules, and then went out and told everyone "Learn this brand new language.  Here is the list of rules. Don't speak this language any other way" 

Isn't the opposite true?  Hasn't actual usage always been the basis for the majority of prescriptive rules?  I mean, how in the world did it become "correct" that some forms of 'mail' are now countable?  Reputable dictionaries list "an email" as correct.  Plenty of people say things such as "I get more than 100 emails a week." and nobody accuses them of bad grammar.  Is electronic mail really any more countable than old-fashioned "snail mail"?  Did a bunch of prescriptivists sit down and decide the countability of 'email' in advance, later informing everyone that e(lectronic)mail is a countable noun?  Nope. The "rules" have clearly been dictated by speaker invention and actual usage.


  
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Cool Breeze  #484337  Mon, 03 Mar 08 08:44 AM
Yankee
The "rules" have clearly been dictated by speaker invention and actual usage.

 

Hi Yankee

Right you are! If we don't accept your premise, we can just as well say that all modern English is incorrect because it would be totally incomprehensible to an eighth-century Englishman.Smile

CB 

  
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Kooyeen  #484605  Mon, 03 Mar 08 06:36 PM

Yankee
I think what people tend to forget is that English was not "invented" by some god-like group of linguists who first sat down and wrote up a list of prescriptive rules, and then went out and told everyone "Learn this brand new language.  Here is the list of rules. Don't speak this language any other way" 

Thank God you think so, Amy! Smile
I always like it when someone says "Just because everybody says it, doesn't mean it is right". Well, the truth is the fact that everyone says it does make it right. Otherwise you should say "thou" instead of "you"... "you" is wrong even though everybody says it, because everyone is actually spoiling the English language.
I also like it when someone says something is non-standard, without saying what they mean by standard (since there is no such thing as a single standard). So I wonder if "aubergine" is a non-standard synonym of "eggplant". It sure is! People in the UK seem to use non-standard English.
  
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Hoa Thai  #484730  Tue, 04 Mar 08 01:19 AM
Kooyeen


I always like it when someone says "Just because everybody says it, doesn't mean it is right". Well, the truth is the fact that everyone says it does make it right.
 

Hi Kooyeen,

What I am trying to figure out is this: before everyone says it, it must be invented by a person or a small group of people; so how does it eventually get accepted by everyone? Is it because it sounds good or it is backed up with some acceptable rule(s) / logical reasoning? I could be wrong - but I tend to think that without conforming to certain standards - for example, a fundamental grammar structure -  it would not survive. In other words, in any language, words might be born as we search for a new way to express our thoughts, but they must satisfy some basic principle(s). In the end, wouldn't it be true that rules make up the foundation of languages? 

  
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Alienvoord  #484897  Tue, 04 Mar 08 04:23 PM
Hoa Thai
In other words, in any language, words might be born as we search for a new way to express our thoughts, but they must satisfy some basic principle(s). In the end, wouldn't it be true that rules make up the foundation of languages?



Yes they do. All languages have rules. A usage is correct if all speakers in the speech community follow it.

Prescriptive rules are different - they are rules explicitly given and based on a person's or group of people's opinion of what is right and wrong. Prescriptive rules do not necessarily have anything to do with how the language is actually used.
  
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I'm a Canadian English speaker
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