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This question is Not Answered
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Kooyeen
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683464
Thu, 05 Mar 09 10:49 PM
Weird problem. I'd just like to hear as many opinions as possible. I have learned a lot of stuff about pronunciation, and I like to learn as much as possible, to keep improving my English. However, I have never seriously practiced spoken English, that is, I might know the single sounds and features, I might be able to pronounce single words or sentences, but when it comes to talk naturally and fluently I really get stuck, just because of lack of practice. I would like to start practicing, somehow, and since I have always focused on American English, I should just find an American to talk with, right? Nope. Because I realized that focusing on American English only might not be the best thing. I realized I need to know some British English too. I realized this when I tried to watch "The Office", UK version, and I could only understand 10% of what they said. Then I thought, "this is not possible", so I went to check "The Office" US version, and I could understand 90% of what they said. The truth is I was not used to British accents at all, and so I could not even figure out what they were saying. Now, if you consider that in movies, TV series, on the radio, etc., you will hear different varieties, and also consider the fact that I am much more likely to visit the UK than the US at first, and also consider I don't plan to move to any definite area (if I ever moved, I could end up anywhere), then... I think the best thing to do would be to be able to speak in two dialects: an American accent, and a British accent. Now, the question: is this possible at all? Is it really convenient? The thing is, I am afraid it is too difficult to keep them separate, and I will end up using a weird mix. Also, if I really start to listen to different varieties regularly, I am sure I will end up using a mixed variety anyway. It doesn't take much British English for me to start losing my R's, for example. I also think it would be difficult for two different accents to coexist, especially because the British accent I would like to pick up would be a kind of London accent (not too strong though). There are a lot of vowel shifts to consider, so it becomes difficult to switch. Bay Bay Say (BBC), pay-pul (people), noiss to may choo (nice to meet you)... Geeez! So what do you think? One accent seems limiting, but more than one is very likely to lead to an odd mix. An odd mix might not be too bad for a non-native speaker, but it just depends how odd it turns out to be. Thanks in advance for all your comments.
Joined on
Thu, Dec 22 2005
Italy
Senior Member
4,971
Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts
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jossx
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683472
Thu, 05 Mar 09 11:12 PM
The best choice is to study received pronounciation because you'll be understood wherever you go. In fact, BBC english is very posh and just lovely, yet they're catchy. Several weeks ago, I was wondering what my english was like. I didn't do so much practice on spoken english, so I decided to meet some contacts on yahoo and get started asap. The result? Horrible! The people couldn't catch what I mean for a good time. I felt bad. My studying grammar came down hill when I realized so, however; I could confirm what many say around. Practice does make perfect! :D and slowly with time I get to share some words over. I discovered that I have a nice spanish accent, which I feel proud of it.The american said I didn't lose it cuz it was part of my mainland. :) to determine what accent is better off is hard! what about a mixture! we non-native speakers don't have to chose a particular way of speaking. I've been speaking english for about 4 weeks. the fluency you get by speaking english, maybe arranging ideas as you're speaking is a good thing, develops criteria and confidency and allows selecting right words for the purpose intended. Thanks for your advise.. I got out to street to make some talking. hahaha so I'll stay over. good bye! chao
Joined on
Tue, Jan 6 2009
New Member
38
"The only thing that I know is that I know nothing"
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MrPedantic
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683827
Fri, 06 Mar 09 09:57 PM
If I understand correctly, Koo, there are two separate problems here: fluent performance in any accent, and comprehension of BrE. I would tentatively hazard that it isn't necessary to acquire a BrE accent yourself to resolve the latter; and so you could happily concentrate on AmE to resolve the former.
MrP
Joined on
Tue, Oct 12 2004
Veteran Member
12,592
...opella forensis / adducit febris...
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Cool Breeze
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683993
Sat, 07 Mar 09 12:38 PM
Hi Kooyeen
I have never concentrated on learning any particular variety of English because it has always been my objective to acquire as good a command of the languagae as possible. Limiting my efforts to just one variety would constitute a self-imposed restriction and I find that abominable! Besides, in Finland it would be impossible not to be exposed to both AmE and BrE since all films and TV programmes have the original soundtrack - except some documentaries and of course movies for children who are so young that they cannot yet read. If anyone suggested that Marlon Brando should speak Finnish in Finnish cinemas, his suggestion wouldn't stand a chance! No way! The idea of dubbing a film for adults sounds like a ludicrous idea to us. We also get tourists from both countries, so I hear both varieties in Helsinki.
As to my own English, I'm sure it's a mix of British and American words and expressions - with the occasional Australian idiom. I have travelled extensively and encountered literally hundreds of native speakers from all corners of the world. I have also read books and magazines from all English-speaking countries. If I want to speak English with native speakers in Helsinki, all I have to do is go to a pub frequented by British and American expats.
My accent and pronunciation is closer to American than British English. That is mostly due to Finnish being closer to American than British English phonetically. Of course it is a far cry from both, but I suppose the British way of leaving out vowel sounds in some words like extraordinary isn't quite to my liking. Anyway, it's more natural for a Finn to pronounce all the vowel sounds in words like that because in our languages (Finnish and Swedish) all vowels are always pronounced. However, I definitely don't even want to be taken for an American - even though that has occasionally happened - and consequently I make no counscious effort to imitate the American accent. Some native speakers have said to me that I have no accent. I think they really mean that I have no strong accent peculiar to a nonnative speaker and therefore they have no difficulty understanding me.
My English being a mix of everything has never bothered me and I don't care in the least if I use a British word and an American idiom in the same sentence. Why should I suffer that to give me a headache? I don't always even know if I'm using a British or an Australian word, and being a nonnative speaker, I just use a word that comes to my mind when I speak. For politeness' sake, I try to use British words and spellings on these forums when I reply to a post written by a Brit and American words when I reply to Americans. I'm sure I don't always get everything right, but I don't care. There are more serious worries in life!
One thing is certain: I have never found it difficult to understand standard British and American English. Some Scots cause problems and so do some uneducated American blacks. They spoke Old Norse in some remote Scottish villages until the beginning of the 18th century. This means that in some areas English has been spoken for only about 300 years. No wonder that they haven't learnt it properly! (Just kidding.)
CB
Joined on
Fri, Apr 7 2006
Senior Member
3,978
"I hope you'll all live to be 150 years old - and the last voice you hear is mine!" Frank Sinatra on stage in Oslo, Norway, 28 September 1991
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Kooyeen
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684511
Sun, 08 Mar 09 10:08 PM
The problem is that I have been focusing on American English, but I have realized that I need British English too (or other varieties, generally speaking), and that neglecting other varieties would be a stupid thing to do. My lack of "practice" and familiarity with different accents is a problem I didn't take into account until recently, when I realized I would like... to listen to and watch whatever I want, as long as it is in English, just like native speakers. I even have a lot of trouble understanding what the Pythons say, and I don't want to avoid watching the Pythons just because I can't understand. That's quite a lot of funny stuff. So the main problem was, once I get familiar with BrE too, and I hear different varieties regularly, what accent am I going to pick up? I might have to focus on BrE explicitly, because right now, say, Friends and The Office (UK) sound VERY different to me. So by the time I'll be familiar with both, supposing it is possible, what will have happened to my accent? Should I try to keep two varieties separated, or should I just let my accent change freely, even if I might end up speaking a mix of AmE and BrE? That was the problem. Anyway, I have been thinking about it, and I guess I will just go on learning and not worry about this, for now. I'll try to get familiar with BrE too, but I won't force myself to adopt any different accent. Right now, I find myself comfortable thinking in an American accent, so I guess I'll take that as my "basal" way of speaking. How it'll develop in the future, I don't know. There are some features that seem to be much more influencing that others, as far as my own perception is concerned, so I can tell for sure that one of the first features I might lose is rhoticity. Anyway, we will see what happens.
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MrPedantic
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684518
Sun, 08 Mar 09 10:35 PM
 Kooyeen“what accent am I going to pick up?”
When speaking another language, I generally aim at a foreign accent. MrP
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Forbes
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684681
Mon, 09 Mar 09 09:13 AM
There is, I think, a difference between pronunciation and accent, though I am not quite sure what it is. Perhaps it is a question of degree. It is perfectly possible to pronounce words correctly but with different accents. Different accents may of course involve different articulations of vowels and consonants, but they also involve other aspects like pitch and intonation. Unless learned at a young age by immersion, most people have at least a trace of a foreign accent when they speak a foreign language.
Joined on
Thu, Jun 16 2005
Regular Member
895
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mxreader
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685005
Tue, 10 Mar 09 02:06 AM
Your written English is very good Kooyeen. With effort I doubt you will have any problems getting used to BrE, just keep doing what you are already doing with the movies and try to add to it some audio from iTunes or listen to some podcasts with RP accents (unless you want to hear other UK accents). Be selective, since some movies will only leave you with 80% swear words, and the other 20% monosyllabics. Which isn't so helpful. In my opinion, being able to adapt and speak with different accents is a gift. Not everyone can do it. Some actors employ accent coaches to help them speak English with different accents. It isn't neccessary to speak with local accents for its own sake, the imporant thing is to be understood. If having the local accent is the way to make yourself understood, then well and good.
Joined on
Fri, Nov 14 2008
New Member
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Kooyeen
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685343
Tue, 10 Mar 09 09:06 PM
I have to say I don't really want to have a "perfect" accent: first of all, it would be impossible or at least not worth it, second of all, I wouldn't really know how to define a "perfect accent". I mean, how could you have a perfect accent from, say, the Bronx and always be consistent in the way you speak if you don't live there or have any reason to pick up that particular accent? My goal is to have an accent that is pleasant to listen to, and be able to understand the most common kinds of English pretty easily, but of course I can't guarantee I'll always be consistent in the way I speak. Anyway, the accent I currently think (or speak) in is American, but I don't want it to limit my understanding of other varieties of English, so I plan to listen and "analyze" some British English too, and then I'll see what happens. It'll be very interesting to see what actually happens, what accent I find myself thinking in, whether I mix incompatible features together (one example could be using intervocalic glottal stops for T's in American English), etc. I'm scared, LOL. See you around.
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