Two years is a long time

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Liveinjapan  #508043  Thu, 01 May 08 08:31 AM
Pter
if there is a grammatical term for this.
 

Hi, I think such an omitting itself can be a grammatical term. It's just my opinion, Pter. 

  
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Please feel free to correct any words I wrote.LiJ
Pter  #508098  Thu, 01 May 08 01:13 PM
How about the following:

1. How many is too many?

2. How many are too many? 

 

  
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Goodman  #508196  Thu, 01 May 08 05:33 PM
Pter,

We were taught early on in basic grammar that “many” suggest more than 1 and therefore plural verb should be used. Yes, it’s true, but not always.  Sometimes the rules seem to be illusively bent, depending on the context. 

 

5 miles one way is too far to walk to school.  – singular verb is correct.

How many cookies are in a package? –if you are hold a bag sealed package and you know it contains more than 1 cookie, then it’s correct to say “how many are there …”.

But if your friend told you about a product and you are interested, you would say “

How many is in the package.  i.e.

A: I booked a cruise vacation to the Caribbean yesterday. It’s a very good package and I thought it would be fun if you can come along.

 

B: How much is it? And how many days is the cruise?  In this context,  I would say “is” is considered correct in my opinion because “how many days” is taken as a duration. However other experts may not agree.

There are plenty of  examples where plural subjects are seemingly used with singular verb agreement. i.e.

Five dollars for a scoop of ice cream is too rich for my taste.

 

So, for your last 2 questions, they are both passible, depending on what the context is. That's how I see it.

  
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CalifJim  #508345  Fri, 02 May 08 04:20 AM
Pter
How about the following:

1. How many is too many?

2. How many are too many? 

Use How many is too many?  Five is too many.  Seven is too few.  Ten men is enough.  Twenty helpers is too many.

CJ 

  
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Pter  #508353  Fri, 02 May 08 05:18 AM
Goodman
Sometimes the rules seem to be illusively bent, depending on the context.
Thanks,Goodman.  "illusively bent" is an excellent description for these situations!

Goodman

How many cookies are in a package? –if you are hold a bag sealed package and you know it contains more than 1 cookie, then it’s correct to say “how many are there …”.

But if your friend told you about a product and you are interested, you would say “

How many is in the package.  i.e.

A: I booked a cruise vacation to the Caribbean yesterday. It’s a very good package and I thought it would be fun if you can come along.

B: How much is it? And how many days is the cruise?  In this context,  I would say “is” is considered correct in my opinion because “how many days” is taken as a duration. However other experts may not agree.

Interesting! It reminds me of the very first question that I posted in this forum:

Who is standing? or Who are standing? 

http://www.englishforums.com/English/StandingStanding/zgchl/post.htm

I joined this forum in the first place because I wanted to know the answer to that question.  Many of my friends find it hard to believe that native speakers actually use "is" in such questions when there are obviously more than one people over there!  Perhaps, having a name for these "illusively bent" situations may help me more easily convince them that the singular should be used.  I would then be able to tell them to look for "whatever-term-that-does-not-yet-exist" in a grammar book.

CalifJim
Use How many is too many?  Five is too many.  Seven is too few.  Ten men is enough.  Twenty helpers is too many.

Thanks, Jim, for your good advice. That's what I'll do in future.

"How many men is too many men?" is a question asked in an episode of Sex in the City. I have also found that the number of hits in Google for "how many are too many" is even more than that for "how many is too many".  But anyway, I'll use "How many is too many?" because it makes more sense to me to use the singular.

 

 

  
Goodman  #508361  Fri, 02 May 08 05:50 AM


 

Who is standing? or Who are standing?  "Who" in most usage is singular. Who is that girl in the red dress?

  
CalifJim  #508363  Fri, 02 May 08 06:19 AM
 
number of hits in Google for "how many are too many" is even more than that for "how many is too many".
Surprising! I never would've guessed.  Surprise

CJ 

  
Pter  #508369  Fri, 02 May 08 06:48 AM
Have you read a recent news that the number of Internet users in China has already exceeded that in the US?  Given the international reach of the Internet, the number of hits in Google is not really a good indication of the use of English among native speakers.  That's why this forum is a real treasure and I very much appreciate all your help and patience.  Something you have taken for granted may be difficult to grasp for me, in particular if the usage seems to contradict what the grammar books say.
  
Pter  #508371  Fri, 02 May 08 07:00 AM

 

Goodman
Who is standing? or Who are standing?  "Who" in most usage is singular. Who is that girl in the red dress?

Yes, that's what I found after doing a bit of research.  "Who" is singular by default, unless there is something in the question that suggests otherwise (e.g. the complement is plural).  The original question that I asked came from an English textbook for primary school children.  The textbook has been used by a lot of schools in Singapore for many years and it was later adapted for the Hong Kong market.  There is a picture in the book with some children in a park.  The students are asked to write some questions about the picture.  In the picture, there are two girls reading a book together.  It sparked a debate whether the question should be "Who is reading?" or "Who are reading?".  Many people said that because there were two girls, so it must be "Who are reading?".  A minority, including me, said it should be "Who is reading?" because it is what a native speaker would say in such a situation.  Many people just didn't believe me.

  
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