CalifJim  +  396787 Thu, 26 Jul 07 01:37 AM the "o" in "clock" on Nona's website I am further confused by the fact that I tried clicking every one of the examples on that site and none of them had the word "clock"!      Wrong site?  Isn't it the same one with the "ship" example you referred to earlier?  And the by-now-infamous "frog"? CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,389 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche

	MrPedantic  +  396795 Thu, 26 Jul 07 02:11 AM Me too, Jim. I intend to avoid the word "occhio" until the matter is resolved. This may be a job for W— R— F—... MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris...

	Orpheus  +  396819 Thu, 26 Jul 07 03:28 AM Now I'm thoroughly puzzled.  Is British o (dog) the same as American au (taut)?  I've never heard that before.  I've always been told that we do not have the British o (dog) in AmE. British o in dog is very similar to American au in taut, but I don't think they are the same. I have always thought that American au is a bit longer than British o, and that British au is more open than American au. But I'm starting to get confused too now And while we are at it, the word pure the way it is pronounced on that website sounds to me more like /pjo:/ than /pju/. I understand that some Brits pronounce pure like that, but I don't think it is representative of the diphthong /u/. I'd say that the way it is pronounced on that site is closer to the vowel /o:/ instead. Orpheus Joined on Tue, Jun 17 2003 Jakarta, Indonesia Regular Member 587 'Truth is Subjectivity' - Kierkegaard Vowels, Diphthongs, Images

	CalifJim  +  396889 Thu, 26 Jul 07 09:40 AM British au is more open than American au. Not sure how you're using the word open here.  To me the British au is closer to /o:/ ("higher"), and the American au is closer to /a:/ ("lower"), but the difference is nothing near as dramatic as the difference between /o:/ and /a:/. CJ CalifJim

	Kooyeen  +  397157 Thu, 26 Jul 07 11:27 PM  CalifJim wrote:   To me the British au is closer to /o:/ ("higher"), and the American au is closer to /a:/ ("lower") Yes, I think you are right, provided you mean "higher" or "lower" on the IPA chart. So I guess Italian "o" is higher that American "au" for those how make a distinction. However, this is not true for all varieties of Italian, I guess. By the way, "clock" is under the symbol "k" on that website. Kooyeen Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005 Italy Senior Member 4,969 Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts

	CalifJim  +  397208 Fri, 27 Jul 07 06:10 AM <<"higher" or "lower" on the IPA chart>>Yes, that's what I meant. <<"clock" is under the symbol "k">>Doh! CJ CalifJim

	iLrrr-n  +  886322 Fri, 04 Sep 09 11:15 AM So, I'm I to understand that all final stops in AmE are unreleased? /p/, /t/, /k/, as in nap, hat, hack? and their voiced counterparts /b/, /d/, /g/, as in nab, had, hag? And let's not forget the nasals, /n/, /m/, /ng/, pen, gem, king? How about if they are preceded by another consonant sound, as in gasp, camp, help, act, aft, walked, raised, bathed, etc.? iLrrr-n Joined on Tue, Aug 11 2009 New Member 09 Consonants

	CalifJim  +  887076 Fri, 04 Sep 09 10:57 PM iLrrr-n “all final stops in AmE are unreleased?” To varying degrees, yes.  t most of all is unreleased when utterance final.  Then p, k, d, b, and g in approximately that order.  The nasals are not stops, so don't worry about those.  You can pronounce them fully. As to combinations, I would release the final consonants, but with little or no aspiration.  (gasp, act, etc.) CJ CalifJim Consonants