Kooyeen  +  394451 Fri, 20 Jul 07 08:46 PM Hi, I read Nona's new post earlier, but... where is it now? I can't see it anymore. It was a post with a link to a website where you could listen to IPA sounds (for British English). Well, I heard a lot of words pronounced with a clear consonant sound at the end. I thought of posting this: What are the consonant that are unreleased at the end of a word? (In American English, but Nona's and the other brits' opinions are welcome too of course, lol). If you say Bob as Bo-buh, bod as bo-duh, bop as bo-puh, and bot as bo-tuh, you will be doing a stereotypical Italian accent. What I notice is that in American English all the final consonants are unreleased, apart form k, which is not aspirated though. The T is unreleased and often with a glottal stop. For M, N, P, ect., not releasing them means not opening the mouth again at the end. Sometimes final consonants are released, but only very very little, so... Having said that, there's not much difference between: Bot / Bop Bod / Bob The fist pair can be distinguished from the second by the vowel length (longer vowel and on two levels of intonation if the syllable ends with a voiced consonant). But there's not much difference between the words in each pair, is there? Opinions? Thannk you in advance Kooyeen Joined on Thu, Dec 22 2005 Italy Senior Member 4,969 Parental Advisory / Explicit Posts Vowels, Intonations, Accents, Difference Between, Consonants, American English, British English, Glottals

	Pucca  +  394494 Sat, 21 Jul 07 12:13 AM  Kooyeen wrote: Hi, I read Nona's new post earlier, but... where is it now? I can't see it anymore. It was a post with a link to a website where you could listen to IPA sounds (for British English). http://www.englishforums.com/English/HearTheIpaSounds/vmvgd/Post.htm You mean this one, Mr K? Pucca Joined on Sun, Aug 27 2006 Spain Senior Member 2,972 British English

	MrPedantic  +  394497 Sat, 21 Jul 07 12:20 AM In BrE, strangely, if you don't release the final B of "Bob", but in fact non-release it excessively, it has a humorous effect. I'm not quite sure why. MrP MrPedantic Joined on Tue, Oct 12 2004 Veteran Member 12,592 ...opella forensis / adducit febris...

	CalifJim  +  394561 Sat, 21 Jul 07 04:39 AM If you say Bob as Bo-buh, bod as bo-duh, bop as bo-puh, and bot as bo-tuh, you will be doing a stereotypical Italian accent. Oh, yes!  You got it! -- What's a bigamist? -- A lot of fog. there's not much difference between: Bot / Bop Bod / Bob It's very difficult to quantify "much difference", but I'd say you're right.  There's a difference, but not much. The first pair can be distinguished from the second by the vowel length (longer vowel and on two levels of intonation if the syllable ends with a voiced consonant). That's a reasonable description.  The unvoiced consonants have the effect of clipping the vowel sound before the mouth forms the final consonant; the voiced consonants allow voicing to continue right through the end of the word including the time it takes to form the mouth into the shape of the final consonant.  In the case of the voiced finals, you can sound the full consonant - just don't go beyond it to form another vowel after it!   You can practice by doing the stereotypical Italian accent first, then reduce that final vowel by whispering it instead of saying it aloud.  From there you can probably slip into not even whispering it. CJ CalifJim Joined on Mon, Aug 2 2004 California Veteran Member 22,399 "There are no facts, only interpretations" - Nietzsche Vowels, Intonations, Accents, Difference Between, Consonants

	nona the brit  +  394778 Sat, 21 Jul 07 02:38 PM Mr P - don't you remember the Bob episode of Blackadder? I'm sure it comes from there. nona the brit Joined on Wed, Sep 22 2004 England Veteran Member 11,713 The name says it all.

	Kooyeen  +  394782 Sat, 21 Jul 07 02:57 PM Yeah Anita, now I've seen where it is! Thx  CalifJim wrote: -- What's a bigamist? -- A lot of fog. Hahahaaa Bot / Bop Bod / Bob The unvoiced consonants have the effect of clipping the vowel sound before the mouth forms the final consonant; the voiced consonants allow voicing to continue right through the end of the word including the time it takes to form the mouth into the shape of the final consonant.  In the case of the voiced finals, you can sound the full consonant - just don't go beyond it to form another vowel after it!   You can practice by doing the stereotypical Italian accent first, then reduce that final vowel by whispering it instead of saying it aloud.  From there you can probably slip into not even whispering it. Yeah, I think you hear the difference because of the way the vowel is cut, rather than because you actually hear the sound of the final consonant. But there's almost no difference anyway... However, I also hear people who release the final consonants, but they are always whispered, it's like they are released but their volume is extremely low compared to the rest of the word. So low that I think you won't even notice those consonants are whispered unless you listen very carefully with your headphones on or turn up the volume (= full blast) of your speakers. But when people don't release final consonants I think it is difficult to distinguish between, say, BOT and BOP (said alone, with no context at all). And this happens most of the time! Take this site Nona's found. If you listen to "ship" (the fourth symbol), you can hear he final P. It's whispered, it's ok, but I think it's too much for Americans, generally speaking. I can hear the P... many Americans wouldn't release it so much, and I wouldn't hear it, I guess. Now, if you consider that BOP and BOT sound practically the same to me, you can easily figure out what sound similar to SHIP, lol. http://www.lcfclubs.com/phonics/flash/ipasounds.html Kooyeen Vowels, Accents, Consonants, Phonics

	MrPedantic  +  394967 Sun, 22 Jul 07 01:38 AM  Nona The Brit wrote: Mr P - don't you remember the Bob episode of Blackadder? I'm sure it comes from there. Phew. I was beginning to think I'd imagined it. (And offended every Bob on the forum.) MrPedantic

	CalifJim  +  395849 Mon, 23 Jul 07 10:41 PM Take this site Nona's found. If you listen to "ship" (the fourth symbol), you can hear he final P. It's whispered, it's ok, but I think it's too much for Americans, generally speaking. I can hear the P... many Americans wouldn't release it so much, and I wouldn't hear it, I guess. Yup. What you say is generally true, but when we purposely make an effort to speak clearly, it sounds just like on that website. Off-topic, the example of the vowel in frog had me in stitches.  There's no such sound in American English, and I find it nearly impossible to reproduce it, to the point of laughing heartily at my own attempts.    Since nearly all of these English vowels, BrE or AmE, must be foreign to you ESL guys, you, too, must be enjoying some good laughs! CJ CalifJim Vowels, American English

	Kooyeen  +  396274 Wed, 25 Jul 07 12:34 AM Ok, thanks. Frog? Clock has also that vowel. We have that vowel in Italian too. Why do you say it's weird? I think there is that vowel in American English, for those who distinguish "cot" and "caught". I think (I can't check, they don't run on my OS now) my dictionaries pronounced "frog" and "dog" with that vowel, and not with the vowel in "father". I just say something at random, like "cot" or "caught", I don't really know what sound I make. What sounds funny to me (It has always sounded funny) is the way you hear "snow"... and you hear that in "no", "so", "closer"... Just think of "A little closer", it doesn't have tapped t's, the O in closer is funny, and no r's, so it's "closa". Kooyeen Vowels, American English