Until

Jack112 wrote:

I saw this online: 1. Radio, television, and telephone transmissions have, until recently, been sent through the air and over wires using electromagnetic waves. These waves are called analog because they have the same shapes as the light and sound waves produced by the transmitters. As light and sound waves change size and shape, the electrical signal that carries the transmission changes proportionately. In other words, the electromagnetic waves are analogous to the light and sound waves. (Is 'have, until recently, been' used correctly here? I thought you couldn't use present prefect with 'until recently' ? For eg. 2. I had never been there before until recently. (Correct) 2. I have never been there before until recently. (Inorrect?) Thanks.

Could you provide the rule and the source please, Jack?

This exact phrase Google search illustrates clearly that this use is fine.

Results 1 - 10 of about 97,400 English pages for "have until recently".

All uses of 'recently' probably do not work.

"I have never been there before, until recently.",

works fine. The rule isn't that we never use the present perfect with past time adverbs. The rule is that we refrain from doing so. In English, one of the jobs of the present perfect is to highlight a past action, to make it current, to show its importance. That's why we refrain from NORMALLY attaching a past time adverb to a present perfect.

In this case, 'until recently' is nebulous enough to pass muster. Similar ones are,

Have you seen John today? [spoken at 11 PM at night]

Have you talked to Marg recently? [Might mean in the last week to a much longer time period depending on the circumstances]

Jack112 wrote:

1. I haven't had time to come here until now. (So this is correct? 'hadn't' is not needed instead of 'haven't'? But it is better if 'hadn't' was used ?) 2. I didn't have tome to come here until now. (Is this okay?) Thanks.

Hello Jack

Both sentences are fine. In #1, you use the present perfect because the situation is "now".

"Hadn't" would imply a "past" context, and so wouldn't match "now":

1. I'd wanted to ask a question on English Forums. But I hadn't had time until/before that moment.

2. I hadn't had time to go there till then.

MrP

Could someone help me out with the post above please?

Thanks.

Yes, I format it in word sometimes. I don't know why it happened here. Sorry about the trouble.

1. In my class, most of the students have enrolled in a post secondary school before they took this course. (Let's say everybody is in class and the teacher is giving the students a little bit of information about who enrolled in the class. Is 'present perfect' (have enrolled) with 'past' (took) fine here? Or is it still incorrect and I should use #4 in my previous post? If so, why? Why can't I use present perfect with a past tense? I'm describing that the students have enrolled in a post secondary school, and now they are here taking the class?

Thanks.