[title]Family quotes[/title] [description]Welcome to our family quotes section! Here you'll find some of the funniest (and wisest) quotes on the subject of family life![/description]
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Ruslana  +  557693 Fri, 22 Aug 08 08:18 PM
Goodman
There is no argument, the US today is very different than a decade ago in many aspects.


Of course it's A LOT different. From the enormous external debt point of view, at least. Smile

Each new-born American owes various external creditors (that are mainly China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Europe) about 30,000 dollars. For comparison - each new-born Russian owes various external creditors about 800 dollars.
Joined on Sat, Dec 17 2005
Senior Member 3,694
Goodman  +  557695 Fri, 22 Aug 08 08:29 PM

It’s quite eye-opening reading the threads in this forum.  If we do a number counts, Ben, you and I are the only ones from the US, and  so coincidently from the same state who are calling it like as we see it.  What about the national debt? For crying out loud, what does it have to do with liberty and justice.  And if I may point out, do liberty and justice  have the same meaning in Russia, if they existt at all?  It doesn’t take a genius to ask a lot of questions, but it does take someone with a broader view of the world and common senses to as ask the  relevant and sensible questions.  We have problems with our government and the politicians who are supposed to represent us as US citizens, in fact, a lot of problems. I would venture to say, more than half of the politicians have betrayed their the people who had elected them into their posts.  And many questionable and wrong decisions on policies were made domestically and internationally along with our president. We have been chewing this topic for a long while now and the issues are evolving to a large mess of debates. We won’t find any conclusion any time soon because of our difference in views and opinions. With that, Ben God bless you for your courage to speak the truth which others disagreed . I rest my case.  

Joined on Mon, Nov 7 2005
Senior Member 3,816
The name says it all!
Ruslana  +  557696 Fri, 22 Aug 08 08:35 PM
shaved
“When you tell me that you like Americans but not their government, what you're really saying is this: "I feel sorry for you that you have to live under a terribly oppressive regime that acts in your name without your approval." My response is this: "You realy don't understand how this country works, do you?"”


Wait, wait a minute, maybe I've missed something...

Do you mean that you (as the USA government, as you claimed) have already got rid of the system of second-votes, and now every USA citizen can participate in a DIRECT election of the president?
shaved  +  557697 Fri, 22 Aug 08 08:39 PM
 I love this topic.

Ruslana
“What sources of information made you think so? ”

Look at per capita income around the world.

Look at internet access around the world.

Look at the billions of people in rural China, rural Russia, rural Africa and tell me that their poverty isn't so bad. What about the millions in rural India, the former Burma, and hundreds of other countries?

 You really don't see the vast disparity in wealth? You don't see the abject poverty? You don't see the seemingly insurmountable barriers?

Ruslana
“Do you know Russian & Chinese languages fluently to have a possibility of reading and watching Russian (Chinese) mass media directly?  ”

I read their official English translations. I know how their information systems work. I understand the difference between the free press and a state-run media where opposition leaders and opposition journalists are killed or imprisoned. It's sad that you don't see the difference.

 

Ruslana
“Please correct me if I made you out wrong: the greatest liberty experiment of humanity started from the presumtion that some small nations were "ineligible"?”

Sort of. This experiment began when slavery was rampant. This experiment began when 99% of the world was living under monarchies or some form of traditional theocracy. It was light-years ahead of it's time then, and it still is now.

Since then, things have changed. And nearly every time changes have been made in the direction of liberty, the US was the one pioneering the change.  Our Constitution is designed to change slowly in the direction of more liberty and more justice over the long haul.

When our founding fathers sat down to write the Constitution, the entire western world looked at the Native Americans as complete savages, entirely nonhuman. They were not considered eligible.

But for that matter, neither were women. The point is that these things have changed.  It's really easy to point the finger at the US for its genocide over 150 years ago, but to make that same claim about the Soviets in the 1980s against all sorts of its own 'undesirable ethnic populations' is more relevant and far more poignient.

 

Ruslana
“Do you mean that the aspiration for giving liberty to small nations led to dependence of these nations? ”

No, but what's done is done. Their people are citizens of our great nation now, with all the rights and freedoms the rest of us have... and more.

 

 

Ruslana
“Oh my gosh, Shaved, do you consider yourself Mr Bush?
Until the majority of American people claim and wholly agree with this statement of yours (by means of a poll or whatever), I believe it should be taken it as your own oddity.”


You have a lot to learn about the social contract we call the Constitution. All Americans should understand that the government represents them. That they ARE the governement. It sounds like the Americans you talk to are (a) not willing to own that fact, (b) too lazy to read their own Constitution, or (c) far too oblivious and willfully negligent of their duty to this nation to bother to vote responsibly and intelligently.

 

Ruslana
“By the way, you HAVE NOT answered the question about the USA debt. Please do that.
Talking about economic strength of the USA, has your government already paid off its enormous external debt of over 9 billion dollars (for comparison, the USA GDP averaged 13 billion dollars in 2006) and solved its problem of being insolvent?”

 We have the largest economy in the world. Our currency is no longer backed by the gold or silver standards. Do you know what backs the dollar now?

It's the 5.56mm bullet, the M1A1 Abrams, and the fleet of aircraft carriers that enforce world stability.

That 'external debt' is the investment the rest of the world makes in our success.  The beauty of the free market is that neither debt or wealth exist until you collect on them.

If the world 'collected' on the debt America owed it, their security would vanish.  We'd have to scale back our massive military, and that would have tremendous consequences on the security of the world.

If China called in our trade deficit, what do you think would happen to their largest consumer? It would not be ble to continue to purchase those goods, and then China would fall apart.  So it's not the US solvency that I refer to when I talk about our economic might. 

I refer to the American consumer, the American marketplace, the largest purchaser of goods and services in the world.  

We let our people keep a hell of a lot more of their money than most other nations do, and as a result, our economy often looks shaky when it is actually very strong.

The American economy is the American consumer.

The American government is the American voter.

Joined on Fri, Apr 11 2008
Southern California
Junior Member 93
FOR ALL INTENSIVE PURPOSES NEVER LICK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH
shaved, 1 yr 96 days ago
Ruslana
“Do you mean that you (as the USA government, as you claimed) have already got rid of the system of second-votes, and now every USA citizen can participate in a DIRECT election of the president?”
 

 

dual federalist system

federal republic

 

look up those concepts please

Ruslana  +  557706 Fri, 22 Aug 08 09:04 PM
Goodman
What about the national debt? For crying out loud, what does it have to do with liberty and justice. ”


Hmm... It does have something to do with liberty and justice. 
I would think that a country that can't pay off her debts can hardly be considered liberated... it wholly depends on creditors... and moreover... such a country can hardly bring any liberty and  justice to the rest of the world... (:^)) Huh?

Goodman
It doesn’t take a genius to ask a lot of questions, but it does take someone with a broader view of the world and common senses to as ask the  relevant and sensible questions. ”


I'm not pretending to be a genius. I ask questions to find answers that I yet don't know. Smile

Goodman
And if I may point out, do liberty and justice  have the same meaning in Russia, if they existt at all?


Come to Russia and see by your own eyes what exists here and what does not (because you won't believe me if I say that liberty does exist here). But Russia doesn't want the same liberty and justice as in Iraq and Yugoslavia.
Dew 2007  +  557708 Fri, 22 Aug 08 09:20 PM
I think the main problem of misunderstanding here is the fact that we understand the term "democratic" differently.
in fact our American friends  try to peruade us that American democracyand freedom is the best.

The problem is that many of other countries see fredom and democracy differently - they want to live their own peaceful lives and not be taught how to live American way.

Those who wanted it - they had gone to the US. And let them live happily.
Why tell the others how to live? Why tell us to do this or that American style?

We want to live in freindship with Georgians and Ukrainians. They have always lived near by and lived in friendship. Why come here and tell them what is wrong and right? stay at home and welocome those who want to live your way.
Joined on Sun, Jun 17 2007
Russia
Contributing Member 1,352
Keep wondering!
Ruslana  +  557709 Fri, 22 Aug 08 09:27 PM
shaved
“I read their official English translations. ”


It doesn't matter. Translation is a translation, but you have no chance to read it in origin, while so "badly informed" Russians and Chinese do have that chance.

shaved
“Our currency is no longer backed by the gold or silver standards. Do you know what backs the dollar now?”


I'm afraid, it's nothing. I bet you'll say now I'm wrong, won't you?

shaved

The American economy is the American consumer.



If you somehow missed it, China exports products to ALL OVER THE WORLD including Europe and Russia. China won't ruin if the "American consumer" collapses.

shaved
Ruslana
“Please correct me if I made you out wrong: the greatest liberty experiment of humanity started from the presumtion that some small nations were "ineligible"?”

Sort of. This experiment began when slavery was rampant.



This doesn't excuse the extirpation (or maybe it's better to say - genocide?) made against the small nation named American Indians.

What more can I tell you if you consider it "liberty and justice" to decide what small nations are "eligible" and what are "ineligible"? This is how Hitler started his career.

I'm sorry, Shaved, your arguments do not stand up to criticism. You operate political myths and tales but not facts. See you around!

shaved  +  557712 Fri, 22 Aug 08 09:42 PM
Dew 2007
“The problem is that many of other countries see fredom and democracy differently - they want to live their own peaceful lives and not be taught how to live American way.
 

We don't invade people who are living peacefully and allowing their citizens to live peaceful, productive, free lives.

We don't export our ideas of liberty at the end of a gun unless someone else's liberty was taken from them by the same methods.

When we invade, we don't force people to adopt our constitution. They write their own.

 

Dew 2007
“Those who wanted it - they had gone to the US. And let them live happily.
Why tell the others how to live? Why tell us to do this or that American style?”

 Tell that to the North Korean peasants who know nothing other than how to farm rice and show deference to the soldiers.

  Not everyone can make it here, especially those who live in regimes who don't let people leave.

Dew 2007
“We want to live in freindship with Georgians and Ukrainians. They have always lived near by and lived in friendship. Why come here and tell them what is wrong and right? stay at home and welocome those who want to live your way. ”

I laugh at this.  Russia did not live in friendship with Georgia or Ukraine. The Russians (and later Soviets) brutally conquered them and oppressed the snot out of them for hundreds of years. 

America doesn't stay home.  I made it clear why we don't. You may think that the Ukrainians are now brainwashed by America.  I say they are liberated. And now that they see the light, they are very very afraid of going back into the darkness Russia imposed.

 

 

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